DIY Soundproofing for Monetarily Challenged! [True Story!]

[lancepiercejr]

If you're looking for the cheapest way to sound proof your space, try your local carpet installer/retailer. There's a 99% reasonable chance they've got a dumpster in the back filled with old carpet and padding, and if you talk civil, they're likely to let you help yourself to whatever you need! It's a good idea to bring a box-cutter, watch out for staples and nails, and avoid old patches that smell like cat pee. If you're lucky, you can get enough scrap from a recent job to do your entire space in the same color, and the insulating padding works really well, too. Avoid patches with clear wearing from where people used to walk. I hung mine with 1 1/4" drywall screws, it works really well, and I chose a godawful ugly brown shag from the 70's!

[Hepcat62]

...wonders quietly when people will learn the difference between soundproofing and sound absorption...

Not to mention the fact that carpet padding and thick carpet is most likely to leave you with a not-quite-dead room that sounds tubby, since it's not doing anything significant to the low-end response...

[gibong]

lancepiercejr,

With all due respect - what you have recommended is a bad idea acoustically and a bad idea in terms of fire safety.

I recommend the following sites:

www.johlsayers.com
www.realtraps.com
www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html
forum.studiotips.com/index.php
www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

[BlackHatRecording]

Eee... Sounds logical, but really it wont do anything good to your space. It will indeed dampen the room internally and reduce or eliminate echos (not really a good thing, it will come out dull and boomy) but wont help in sound proofing. Sound proofing requires MASS, like multiple layers of drywall filled with thick density insulation.

Fill

[MASSIVE Mastering]

...wonders quietly when people will learn the difference between soundproofing and sound absorption...

[Hybridrummer]

A better alternative to the one suggested is heavy drapes....with large pleats in them.

[lancepiercejr]

Mr Bong, and everybody, you're all absolutely right, and I humbly defer to y'alls wisdom, judgement, and higher thinking. All I know is my neighbors don't complain anymore, so the primary focus was accomplished using this substandard method. Kids, don't try this at home.

[stvfetterly]

What if you were building a room within a room kind of setup . . . if you put a lot of heavy carpet on the outside (not the inside) of the room, wouldn't that contribute to a dense limp mass that would kill a lot of sound transmission? You would still have to treat the inside of the room, but does anyone know if it would work to kill some of the sound leakage? (some carpets have that thick rubbery underpadding in addition to the top carpet parts)

[gibong]

It may work...or it may not. I suspect not.

The reason I personally wouldn't use carpet and polyfoam underpadding isn't for its (dubious) acoustical properties, but for it's fire safety. Horror stories abound:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/ ... 2081.shtml

Some soundproofing experts who have seen television video of the disaster said that because the building was quickly engulfed by flames and awash in black smoke, they believe the material used at The Station was polyurethane foam — a commonly used, inexpensive alternative to fire-resistant panels many experts prefer.

"It's a common mistake many people make, not evaluating their materials," said P.J. Nash, a national soundproofing distributor based in San Diego, Calif. "Polyurethane foam is extremely flammable, and if you breath that smoke, it's going to knock you out in a minute."

Carpet padding uses the same stuff. Hang it on your walls and you've got a recipe for disaster.

[owel]

I think everybody should snip a little portion of their foam and try lighting it with a match.

If it catches fire easily, you should discard it and not put it in your own home.

[m-dance]

From personal experience there is only one real way to sould proof a room on a budget. This is general guidence only. The carpet theory will NOT work!!

Phase 1.

1) Build a 75x50mm room within the room - frame approx 1" void away from the wall
2) Install 75x100x600 60kg/m3 rockwool slabs throughout the whole frame - walls & ceiling
3) Install resilient bars to hang 1st layer of 12.5mm sound block plaster board. Leave 5mm gap all around (In effect the plaster board should be 'floating' and not connnected to the any walls, floor of ceiling)
4) Adhese 3mm sound block mats 500x500mm to 1st layer of plaster board. This acts as a 'lead' type barrier. Walls & ceiling
5) Install 2nd layer of 12.5mm plaster board. Again 5mm gap all around
6) Point up all gaps, with flame retardent acrylic sealent - you will need loads
7) Plaster the room

Raise the floor. Install battens (75x50mm) with rock wool slab installed underneath the chipboard floor and in between battens.

Use only solid core doors with 15mm fire seals and thresh holds. All light & power fittings to be surface mounted.

The room should be built like a fish tank and fully sealed. Think of sound as water. Any areas where the sound proofing is penetrated is a point of weakness. However ventilation can be a problem.

Phase 2.

Correctly specified acoustic treatment. Absorbers, bass traps & diffusers.

These are the applications I have used and the results are excellent. I would say the room is 98% sound proof. Only a slight rumble with your ear to the wall can be heard. However it depends on how far you wish to go in relation to the environment it affects.

[fourthds]

would large curtains like in a cinema work for aleast breaking down on some of the large amunts of reverb in a bare room?

[rp314]

The criticisms are valid but many of the suggestions ignore the "Monetarily challenged" part of the subject line.

What ever happened to using egg cartons, especially the square variety used by diners? I recall them being pretty popular once upon a time although I'm fairly sure they were not a scientifically proven method.


Richard

[epic]

The criticisms are valid but many of the suggestions ignore the "Monetarily challenged" part of the subject line.

What ever happened to using egg cartons, especially the square variety used by diners? I recall them being pretty popular once upon a time although I'm fairly sure they were not a scientifically proven method.


Richard

Let egg cartons do what they are good at, protecting eggs, and not try to force them to work on sound. They dont have broadband absorbtion. They only tackle, one problem, and not even very well at that. You get what you pay for, so don't expect much from cheap.

[Blue Bear Sound]

The criticisms are valid but many of the suggestions ignore the "Monetarily challenged" part of the subject line.

What ever happened to using egg cartons, especially the square variety used by diners? I recall them being pretty popular once upon a time although I'm fairly sure they were not a scientifically proven method.

The laws of physics don't care about your "budget"..... stopping sound (which is what "soundproofing" is) takes mass and specialized construction, which costs money - a lot of it. Period.

Sound treatment OTOH is not about containing sound, but rather controlling room reflections. That CAN be accomplished more or less (as far as higher-frequencies) with heavy damping material (like theatre curtains, acoustics foams, rockwool, and the like) and is not nearly as expensive as soundproofing (but then again, it does NOTHING in the way of "soundproofing" either.)

And egg cartons are great for one thing - holding eggs. That's it.

[rp314]

OK, look, I know that there are very knowledgable people here with constructive criticisms, BUT....

1. The original poster was suggesting something that any of us who have lived most of our lives in apartments know to be true: one can tell which rooms our upstair neighbors have carpetted and which still have bare floors. The idea that putting said stuff for free on the walls could help keep one from being evicted is not that far-fetched.

2. The original poster placed this in a forum titled Do-It-Yourself-Projects which seems to be the correct place for this kind of suggestion. If it read How To Build A Professional Recording Studio then it may be out of place.

3. The traditional view about budgetary constraints is that we tend to understand them much better when we are operating under them. Some of us older folks have fewer financial limitations but we still have the ability to remember what it was like to piece together a studio with very limited funds.

Richard

[Blue Bear Sound]

None of which changes the fact that the laws of physics don't care about "budget".....

You think a 2-inch piece of foam or better yet an 1/8inch piece of egg carton is going to do anything to minimize a 100Hz soundwave having a wavelength of 11.3 feet???? Or a 5.65 foot 200Hz soundwave??

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how ineffective that is.....

[rp314]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how ineffective that is.....

Nothing like a good dose of condescension to keep others from invading your forum, huh?

Fair enough. Bye.

Richard

[epic]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how ineffective that is.....

Nothing like a good dose of condescension to keep others from invading your forum, huh?

Fair enough. Bye.

Richard

Its not that at all. Giving mis-information does nothing to benefit anyone. How much foam do I have on my walls? none. is my room good for recording in, for my needs yes. Would it be better if I put up egg crates? Not much, and I would have to worry about fire hazards, and ugly egg crates on my walls.

The comment on knowing which rooms are carpeted, and which ones are not is interesting, but is looked at from the wrong point of view. The loud thumps you hear from above in an uncarpetted room are because the lack of padding between the floor and the object striking it. If you cushion a drumstick before it hits the drum skin, you cannot hit it as hard, and the volume is less, since the foam absorbs the impact. This is completely different than putting foam around the drum.

There is a definite science to sound absorption. Ignoring it doesn't make the science disapear. Wavelengths of different frequencies require different things to be absorbed. the lower the frequency, the more mass is required to contain the sound. Read up on acoustics at http://www.acoustics101.com/

People in general need to remember that when you hear something that you don't like, it doesn't mean that the person telling you is wrong. If they know what they are talking about, have a firm understanding of the information at hand and can be considered an expert, most likely when they tell you you are wrong, they are doing it for your own benefit, and for those who might be misinformed by something you have said.

[gaius]

I've noticed the rising number of unfriendly posts in this forum, which is not good.

No doubt, there are some truths being spoken, but i think Truths can be presented in a nicer way, in order to maintain the harmony and good atmosphere in this forum.

This is a nice place to share experience and knowledge, and to make friends. Always consider others better than ourselves. Humility and sincerity are something we all need to learn.

Peace,
Gaius

[J Epic]

I cant believe what im hearing hear!

Are you really gonna tell me that, as bad as it may be for acoustics and fire saftety, that carpet hanging from yours walls doesnt help?

I agree that wont give you 100% isolation, or anything near that, but that carpet is indeed mass, and it DOES cut down on the noise you can hear outside.

Just cause there is a best way, doesnt mean the bad way doesnt work. Especially in the case of carpet and theater style drapes. These "solutions" if you will work best on high frequencies which i seem to remember travel farther than low frequencies so stopping these should help in some way.

[theclyde]

1. The original poster was suggesting something that any of us who have lived most of our lives in apartments know to be true: one can tell which rooms our upstair neighbors have carpetted and which still have bare floors. The idea that putting said stuff for free on the walls could help keep one from being evicted is not that far-fetched.

Carpet on the floors provides a cushion from the walking and chair dragging. I had never noticed in a difference in hearing my upstairs neighbors stereo capeted floor or not.

2. The original poster placed this in a forum titled Do-It-Yourself-Projects which seems to be the correct place for this kind of suggestion. If it read How To Build A Professional Recording Studio then it may be out of place.

Does do-it-yourself mean cheap and innefective, or does it mean not prefab store bought? Here is a good do it yourself project for people who cannot afford studio monitors.. go to the junkyard and find a car with a half decent stereo in it. Grab the speakers and the radio. Hook it up and bango you have a do it yourself monitor that can run on battery power, has a tape deck and might even have an eq built in.

3. The traditional view about budgetary constraints is that we tend to understand them much better when we are operating under them. Some of us older folks have fewer financial limitations but we still have the ability to remember what it was like to piece together a studio with very limited funds.

Granted it is very easy to forget how a budget can be. But when I was younger and poorer and saved my beer money enough to go to the pawn shop and buy a tascam 4 track tape recorder I did not put it on my desk and call my room a studio. For me it was the cats ass to be able to play around with multitrack. But I was under no impression at all that it was a studio. it was a tool.

[Blue Bear Sound]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how ineffective that is.....

Nothing like a good dose of condescension to keep others from invading your forum, huh?

Since when is a matter-of-fact statement considered condescending?

I meant precisely what I said -- you don't have to have a serious physics degree to realize that a 1/8-inch deep egg carton will not stop sound waves having wavelengths of many feet... so that alone should make you realize the ineffectiveness of using such materials for soundproofing.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it isn't true... and it also doesn't mean it's condescending...........

Must've struck a nerve....

[gibong]

Are you really gonna tell me that, as bad as it may be for acoustics and fire saftety, that carpet hanging from yours walls doesnt help?

The physics behind room acoustics is often counter-intuitive. Absorption does not equate to isolation. Take a look at John Sayers' diagram here: (Under "Ceilings" - look at the fist diagram and note the STC of carpeted "(a)" and bare floor "(c)". They are the same: STC=45...or at most 1db better (but not likely due to the carpet).

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... 0Chart.htm

More Acoustic Myths:
http://www.audio-muziek.nl/audiotechniek/acoustics.pdf

Look at Myth #1.

[the_rider]

What I understand on all this, it's not because you are on a tigth budget that u have to go with cheap stuff. If you don't have money, but you can afford 100 egg cups, u should instead save it and buy a 1'x1' acoustic foam. I understand all what blue bear says this way : If you have only 5$ and want a cd at 20$, are you gonna waste your 5$ on some virgin cd's just because you want some cd's ? Some people are just frustrated the way other responds but if you would listen to a "false" tips and go buy 50$ of carpet, installed it, try it and it's gonna sound like crap because no one said it was a bad idea just to preserved someone ego ... We are all here to learn and discuss so dont think you have the truth ...

I direct this to nobody ... just that I have to say it ( in a poor english) lol