Tascam DTRS and Recording with DAT

[.:On The Rock:.]

Hello all. In my quest for multi-tracking on a student budget, I came to the idea of recording with digital audio tape. I've come across two Tascam DA-78hr's and thought about using them along side a mixer. The price is right so I've come to you for more information. These machines are much older than I am and I was told that in their day, they were top of the line for the new breed of digital studios. I was told that the converters are very good, but not much else. I haven't heard much information about the quality of these old DAT recorders. Ideally, I would like an HD recorder like the Alesis HD24, but with my budget and future time constraints, I cannot justify spending the money. And please don't mention how much cheaper DAW's are. I just mentioned it... oh no!

[Farview]

Since they are DA78's they will have 24 bit converters. They are fine, but they are 10 year old tech. I ran my studio off of DA88 and DA38's which were the 16 bit older brothers to the DA78 and 98's. They were very reliable and sturdy. 3 out of my 5 machines still work and they are 15 years old and were my main recorders for about 8 years.

The downsides are:
You have to format the tapes in real time. So that's about 2 hours to format the tapes before you can record on them.

Tape rewinding uses up a silly amount of time compared to DAW

If something goes wrong with the machine, it's about $1000 to fix it and you will probably have a hard time finding people to work on it and parts to fix it. They are not worth fixing.

If the machines break down, there is no way for you to play the tapes ever again. About twice a year I get a call from someone who wants to transfer some old tapes. I'm the only guy within 300 mile of here that still has working machines. But, since mine are DA88, I can't play the tapes you would make in your 78's.

[.:On The Rock:.]

I don't think I'll be formatting many tapes as I'll be over-writing many tapes (this could change however). I'll just have to get over the rewinding aspect, and if it breaks, I'll probably just bite the bullet and buy a HD-MTR. I wont be very much out of pocket anyways. I just hope they'll last long enough until I make enough to buy one.

[Farview]

I forgot the big one: There is no undo button. If you screw up a punch-in, you have to keep punching in until it's right. If you accidently arm the wrong track and record over something, it will be gone forever.

[RocStar]

If you screw up a punch-in, you have to keep punching in until it's right.

That's what we used to get paid for.
Anticipating the JH-24 was an art.
These kids today have it easy.

[.:On The Rock:.]

I forgot the big one: There is no undo button. If you screw up a punch-in, you have to keep punching in until it's right. If you accidently arm the wrong track and record over something, it will be gone forever.

I'm totally fine with that. I'm sure it'll only help me become more proficient by facing mistakes which have more profound affects. I can get each unit for $150 dollars each and the big remote for another $150. I can also get a DA-38 for $100 but I only really need 16 channels at the most.

[Farview]

The DA38 is only 16 bit. You wouldn't be able to play the tapes recorded in the other machines on it.

Not having an undo really makes you think about whether you can really outdo your last take or not. If you don't have any spare tracks, you can't keep the last take and try another one.

[.:On The Rock:.]

Yeah, well that's why I just want the two 78hr's. I don't think I'll really need more than 16 channels for the time being. I'll need to buy more mics to use up all 16 channels as it is.

[.:On The Rock:.]

Well, I bought them, and the most productive thing I've done with them so far was changing the welcome message.

[Farview]

That's always a lot of fun

[.:On The Rock:.]

It's about all I can do for now. I've got someone trying to track down the original sync cables and ordering tapes.

[Farview]

They use hi-8 tapes that you can get a best buy. The sync cables are normally on ebay.

[.:On The Rock:.]

Really? I've read that you should only use Hi8 tapes with DTRS written on them and to use only specific types of tape as to not increase wear on the heads here:
http://www.silentway.com/definitive-dtr ... am-da-78hr
It might not be one that page, but somewhere else within that guide.

If they are suitable, then that just perfect 'cause Newfoundland just got it's first best buy.

I haven't looked extensively on eBay, but I can't find the sync cables anywhere else on the internet, maybe some outdated websites, but only parts to build them. I'll have to look again I suppose.

here's a pic to keep interest


all for $400, I think I did well, no?

Edit, look here for the tape guide:
http://www.silentway.com/definitive-dtr ... day-before

[.:On The Rock:.]

Also, from the manual:

TASCAM does not endorse any specific tape or tape manufacturer. TASCAM has licensed the use of the DTRS logo (T) to tape manufacturers, provided their tape meets the specifications required by DTRS tape recorders.
...
The electronics of DTRS recorders are designed to operate within specific parameters. The use of a tape with sensitivity higher or lower than that of tapes for which the DTRS recorder was originally designed may cause an error in functionality or prevent the user from getting optimum performance from the tape. Always use the shortest possible tape for a given project. Do not attempt to use 150-minute or longer tapes in DTRS machines, as the machine will detect the thickness of tape and automatically eject any tape thinner than recommended.

[Farview]

Yes, but just because it doesn't have the logo (which costs the tape makers money to use) doesn't mean that it isn't the right stuff. I was using HI-8 MP tapes from Maxell for the 10 years I was using my machines on a daily basis. Yes, I did replace the heads on a couple of the machines, but I had thousands of hours on those heads. The machanism stopped working and it was cheaper to put new heads on when they had the thing apart than to do it laster when the heads finally did where out.

[.:On The Rock:.]

Gotcha.

One more q,
Can I just use the converters in the machine and output from the tdif i/o to my computer, or do I have to record on tape?

Thanks a lot for all your help by the way.

[Farview]

You can use them as converters. I did that for a little while when I was making the switch from tape to DAW. I had the decks synced up to nuendo and recorded to tape and the DAW at the same time.

[.:On The Rock:.]

That's great! Is it just me or did I get a steal with 16 24bit converters for $300? I know these are a bit dated technology wise, but still, I can have a hybrid set-up - recorder/DAW, and the benefits of tracking and mixing using an analog mixer, all on a student budget. Once I make a bit of money, I can swap out the tape recorders for hard disk recorders.

Thanks again, Jay. We share a great last name.

[.:On The Rock:.]

In case anyone was wondering (in the future perhaps), you can make your own controller sync cables for these machines, granted you can find DA-16 D-Sub connectors.



(Yes I put casings on them after)