For all you newbs…(regarding room treatment) [w/new graph]

[ALunarLullaby]

…who think you don’t need room treatment, think again! I was once a newb (and probably still am) and always thought covering my walls with foam wedge tiles would suffice. I’ve finally realized what I’ve been missing. I finally decided to start purchasing bass absorption panels from GIK, only a set at a time since money is tight. I started putting them in my control room, an 8’ x 9’ room with 7’ ceilings. I ordered one set of absorption panels, 2 panels total, and put them up in two of the corners. I was instantly impressed by the sound. When I was near the wall with the two panels, the bass frequencies seemed so much clearer. And when I stood in a corner without a panel, the bass sounded all jumbled and almost confused. A few weeks later (2 days ago) I received one more set and placed them in the other two corners. I took my 2” foam wedge panels and placed four panels on three walls (one wall has a window to the recording room). The wedge panels were relatively cheap from a local manufacturer (with an NRC rating of about 0.71, which isn’t the greatest but better than nothing). I figured the sound would improve a bit, probably as much as when I got the other two panels. I wasn’t even meaning to test the sound when I was going through old recordings of band rehearsals when I realized how clear the sound was, especially the lower frequencies, which I should have expected. I didn’t think I’d get such a noticeable difference in sound. It was amazing!

As far as pricing goes. I spent $300 total on the absorption panels (shipped) and probably less than $100 on the foam panels. That’s only $400 to turn a crappy room into one that’s definitely usable. Is it the greatest? No, but it’ll definitely help you produce better recordings. Just thought you guys should know why everyone puts so much hype on room treatment.

*edit - I've attached a room analysis below*

I got a hold of the Room EQ Wizard yesterday and decided to mess around with it in my studio. I used a Groove Tubes GT67 in the omni pattern to analyze the room. Obviously it's not calibration mic, but I think it can be used well as a comparison. I did a lot of tests yesterday. It was very interesting to see what affected the sound, and even how much one 2' x 4' bass panel cleared up the sound.

Anyway, a graph of an analysis without traps and with 4 bass traps is below. Just looking at it, you can see a huge improvement in low end response. For instance, the large peak at 149Hz has been tamed a bit, and the low dip at 266Hz has also been taken care of. No, the room still isn't great, but it's much better with the trapping than without. This just goes to show you that $300 worth of trapping can make significant improvements. I can't wait to get more and see how it improves.

[eubey]

Good to know. I'm looking at buying from GIK as well, glad to know someone new like me can really tell the difference. makes the $500ish i'm about to drop seem like less of a big deal out of my budget

[ALunarLullaby]

Good to know. I'm looking at buying from GIK as well, glad to know someone new like me can really tell the difference. makes the $500ish i'm about to drop seem like less of a big deal out of my budget

Absolutely man, I wish I would have done it three years ago. Kinda feel stupid for not.

[Weasel9992]

Thanks for all the kind words guys, we appreciate it. The other reason to buy rather than make is for the room treatment advice, so don't be shy about asking me for a treatment plan. That takes most of the guess work out.

Frank

[ALunarLullaby]

Thanks for all the kind words guys, we appreciate it. The other reason to buy rather than make is for the room treatment advice, so don't be shy about asking me for a treatment plan. That takes most of the guess work out.

Frank

I considered doing DIY panels, but with what GIK offers, it wasn't that cost effective. Plus, I wouldn't have to worry about doing it right. Plus, I did take advantage of GIK's free consulting. Very knowledgeable guys and very helpful. I really liked the fact that they didn't pressure me into anything. They recommended what I could do based on my budget and never mentioned anything about trying to get a sale started. That's why I really like working with them.

Plus, GIK's offering 10% off right now. Take advantage!

[Weasel9992]

I really liked the fact that they didn't pressure me into anything. They recommended what I could do based on my budget and never mentioned anything about trying to get a sale started. That's why I really like working with them.

We hate that too...that's why we don't do it. We've got budgets to work with just like everybody else. We identify with and purchase from companies like Cascade, Shinybox and FMR because they make great gear for the regular schmoe and they don't charge an arm and a leg. If you call Shinybox right now you're likely to talk to Jon, the dude who owns the joint. I like that.

Frank

[ALunarLullaby]

Apparently when you modify the original message it doesn't bump the topic. Anyway, I added a graph of my quick room analysis in the original post.

[Weasel9992]

Apparently when you modify the original message it doesn't bump the topic. Anyway, I added a graph of my quick room analysis in the original post.

Man, that is a pretty dramatic improvement. That's a lot of smoothing in a lot of places...awesome.

Frank

[MASSIVE Mastering]

It really is almost freakish... That null at 280 is almost gone completely.

[Multiman]

what's the dB scale on that room analysis?

[ALunarLullaby]

Man, that is a pretty dramatic improvement. That's a lot of smoothing in a lot of places...awesome.

No kidding, I was surprised to see that big of an improvement. Of course, I could drastically hear the difference, as I posted before. But it always reinforces what you think when you can see it. Especially for someone with not-so-trained ears like me.

It really is almost freakish... That null at 280 is almost gone completely.

I know! I think there was a ghost or something my room messing with me.

what's the dB scale on that room analysis?

The horizontal lines are in increments of 10 SPL (I believe). I wasn't too sure, that's why I didn't put the scale on the left.

I still can't believe that spending only $300 made such an improvement. I hope at least one newbie reads this and is convinced to spend some money on good treatment. At least then I'll feel like I made a difference in the world.

[Multiman]

The horizontal lines are in increments of 10 SPL (I believe)

wow! That was about a 40dB null up there around 270-280 Hz.

[Weasel9992]

The horizontal lines are in increments of 10 SPL (I believe)

wow! That was about a 40dB null up there around 270-280 Hz.

Yes, but its very, very narrow in terms of bandwidth so there's not a lot of energy involved...therefore, a small amount of trapping produces a big change.

Frank

[Multiman]

I can understand how trapping would probably fix it. I was just wondering what would cause such a dramatic narrow bandwidth null in the first place. Some kind of tuned Helmholtz effect? If is was a standing wave surely we'd see peaks and nulls neatly lined up along the harmonics - and unless the walls were made of marble or something, surely the bandwidth would be greater?

[Weasel9992]

I can understand how trapping would probably fix it. I was just wondering what would cause such a dramatic narrow bandwidth null in the first place. Some kind of tuned Helmholtz effect? If is was a standing wave surely we'd see peaks and nulls neatly lined up along the harmonics - and unless the walls were made of marble or something, surely the bandwidth would be greater?

No no...remember, this is a lot more complex than simply calculating the effects of the axial modes; when you add the tangential modes things get far more complex. You're not going to see neat little standing waves lined up like little soldiers for the same reason you won't see that in a big wave machine....interactions from the sides and bottom.

That narrow little null could be an interaction between the length-related mode causing the dip and a harmonic of the height-related mode that's close to to it, which has the effect of deepening the null and reducing the affected bandwidth.

Frank

[Multiman]

hmmm.. so this would be localized effect? If the measurement was taken from a slightly different position the null might not be there?

[ALunarLullaby]

hmmm.. so this would be localized effect? If the measurement was taken from a slightly different position the null might not be there?

That'd be interesting to test and see. I'm supposed to be getting two more GIK traps today to put on the ceiling. We'll see how I'm feeling tonight, but I'll see if I can't take a few more measurements in different locations throughout the room and see if your theory is correct.

[Weasel9992]

hmmm.. so this would be localized effect? If the measurement was taken from a slightly different position the null might not be there?

It's absolutely a localized effect. Room modes are, by definition localized. If he moves a foot back, left or right elements of his plot will change dramatically. That's why we encourage people to move themselves and their monitors while they're "tuning" a room; sometimes a small change in position can yield big results at the listening position.

Frank

[zlaja]

i need to treat my room......

i noticed that there is less peakage and less nullage with treatment, and i think my room suffers from that

[Weasel9992]

i need to treat my room......

i noticed that there is less peakage and less nullage with treatment, and i think my room suffers from that

If you haven't treated it, I guarantee that it does. The post above makes a great point, too...you don't have to start off with $1,000 worth of treatment to make a difference. Just a few panels can make a noticeable difference.

Frank

[zlaja]

i need to treat my room......

i noticed that there is less peakage and less nullage with treatment, and i think my room suffers from that

If you haven't treated it, I guarantee that it does. The post above makes a great point, too...you don't have to start off with $1,000 worth of treatment to make a difference. Just a few panels can make a noticeable difference.

Frank

Yeah, ive been thinking about buying some traps (i know where to get them from haha). The thing is i dont have much money and I spend money on gear that i can use. I know that treatment is important, but i kinda just sits on the wall. You know what i mean. But eventually....

[ALunarLullaby]

Yeah, ive been thinking about buying some traps (i know where to get them from haha). The thing is i dont have much money and I spend money on gear that i can use. I know that treatment is important, but i kinda just sits on the wall. You know what i mean. But eventually....

Dude, I used to think exactly the same way. But what's the point in using all that gear if you can't hear it or record it correctly? Like I said, I wish I would have started doing this a while ago. But, you live and learn and hope that you can teach people from your experiences.

[Weasel9992]

Yeah, ive been thinking about buying some traps (i know where to get them from haha). The thing is i dont have much money and I spend money on gear that i can use. I know that treatment is important, but i kinda just sits on the wall. You know what i mean. But eventually....

I know it's not a sexy purchase. It was hard for me to shell out all that money, and this was long before I worked for GIK...but it was only hard the first time. After I heard what it did for the room the next purchase was real, real easy.

This is not a sales pitch. Ask around...you'll hear the same thing over and over.

Frank

[ALunarLullaby]

I know it's not a sexy purchase. It was hard for me to shell out all that money, and this was long before I worked for GIK...but it was only hard the first time. After I heard what it did for the room the next purchase was real, real easy.

This is not a sales pitch. Ask around...you'll hear the same thing over and over.

It was exactly the same way for me (and I only started purchasing them 3 months ago). And it really isn't a "sexy" purchase, but I noticed that my studio looked way more professional with the traps. I was even complemented on the fact from friends and my band members that the studio looked "cooler". And they told me this before I even explained what they were for.

[MASSIVE Mastering]

The monitoring chain and the room are most definitely not the most "sexy" purchase. But they are, by far, by a huge long-shot, by light-years, not-even-close-to-anything-else-no-matter-what, the paramount, the zenith, the absolute most important purchase you will ever make without a shadow of a doubt.

Room treatments (*proper* room treatments, for the record) do far more than just "hang on the wall" -- They allow you to hear more accurately. NOTHING can ever come close to the effect that will have on every single adjustment you will ever make on a recording.

Did I mention that it's pretty important?

Spending money on gear "you can use" is like buying a really nice motor and having no car for it.