Rig #2 Quality home studio for bands, composers,

[Tweak]

Rig #2 Ultra Flexible and Sonically Inventive Analog/Firewire Mixer Based
Desktop Rig

http://tweakheadz.com/rigs.htm#Rig2

Who its for:

Ideal for bands, the advanced home composer, synth studios and those who demand flexibility and superb quality to do whatever they want.

Hooking up this Rig:

Note that with the Onyx 1640, unless you want to use a different audio interface, you need to have the optional firewire card that installs in the mixer. Once you have that in place, its just a simple firewire cable to the computer. Your monitors will go on the Onyx control room outs, your mics will go to the onyx preamps (and you can connect and record 16 of them if you want). The M3 in our example above would have its audio outs connected to the onyx line inputs. For midi the M3 could connect by USB, However, remember the Onyx has no MIDI i/o so if you want to use older synths you need a MIDI interface. That is where MOTU midi express 128 (or other) MIDI interface comes in. It just connects to a USB port. You connect all your 5-pin Standard MIDI cables to it. Your sequencer will see all those MOTU midi ins and outs and all the audio ins an outs of the Onyx. Pretty amazingly simple for a huge system that can do full bands! The rest you do with the mouse inside the application.

Suggested gear:
Onyx 1640 plus firewire card
Korg M3 61 or suitable keyboard with sounds
Dynaudio Bm5
Apple iMac
Logic Studio
MPD24
Headphones of choice
Suggested mics, RE20, sm81, Blue Baby Bottle (these of course are subject to preference)

[Tweak]

Discussion of Rig #2
This is not a budget rig, but one of extraordinary sonic fidelity, amazing flexibility, and in all pure class! Of course it costs about 6 times the Firebox Rig, but you get capability and the flexibility to do lots more things.

By adding the Firewire i/o card to the Mackie Onyx 1640, you can do away with the soundcard and audio interface and get more inputs and a very nice analog mixer with nice preamps. Connect to your computer with a single firewire cable. The advantage of this system is that it is flexible. You can use external gear as well as the software instruments in your sequencer. It is also a great rig for bands and drummers, who need to connect several mics and want to record several tracks in one pass to the sequencer. With the Onyx 1640, you can record 16 mics at once if you need them.

The Dynaudio BM5a or BM6a MkII is an outstanding choice for a nearfield monitor. Another possibility would be a Mackie HR 624 or 824Mk2.

I selected the Korg M3 for its sheer sonic inventiveness with the Karma II processing inside. But any keyboard, even a soundless controller will work here, because Logic has all the soft synths you will need inside. An alternative hi end synth is the Yamaha S90ES, which has the entire Motif Soundset and a fantastic piano. This is the choice for someone who wants the full 88 keys. I've selected the MOTU MIDI Express 128 to give you plenty if MIDI ins and outs for connecting external gear. Add your entire rack of MIDI modules and effects from years past. As a nice touch, I add an MPD24. Its keeps with the small footprint, but gives those big MPC style drum pads popularized by hip hop beat makers.

A computer with Firewire is required. This gear will work with PCs or Macs, but I suggest a late model Mac, like the iMac pictured above and Logic Studio, or a fast Dell or HP and Cubase. It will give the studio a small footprint with the capability of doing very large projects, just right for many rooms we have in our homes. Add the mics you need and you have a extremely classy rig that you will enjoy for years.

[adriantheman]

i really like the sound of this setup, but i was wondering if there was a way to get a similar result from around a $1000-$1200 budget, excluding the korg synth sampler, as the kind of music we play doesn't really need that. i like the amount of tracks available on the mixer itself, but it's above my budget and this rig fits my needs perfectly. do you know if it would be possible to get this rig in a modified way but achieve the same quality for a smaller price?

[Tweak]

The less expensive way to get a lot of tracks that can be recorded in one pass is the Tascam US1641 which is USB 2.0.

No Mixer though

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--TASUS1641/sid--ai


The Alesis multimix 16 will get you closest to an Onyx in terms of i/o (usb2)
http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--ALEMM16USB20
It does have a mixer.

[christianpyro]

First off I want to say thank you for this fantastic site! You really have done a great job providing valid content and instruction for noobies like me.

I have just recently started purchasing gear for my home studio. This rig you posted seems to be very similar to mine:

Yamaha Motif XS8
New IMAC
RME FireFace 800 interface
Logic Pro
2 Sm57's and 2 Sm58's
BM5A monitors
Guitars and effects

I still need to purchase a good microphone for vocals + and I was thinking about getting a program for my drums

My question: You suggested a mixer... I am I right in assuming that this was do t it having 16 channels rather than the limited number often available in an interface such as mine?

Would you recommend me to switch the FireFace for a good mixer, and if so why? (keep in mind that I don't play drums and probably won't record more than 2-3 mics at any given time at this point)

Is there anything else that you would suggest for my rig? Especially in the drum category...

[aww-de-oh]

You suggested a mixer... I am I right in assuming that this was do t it having 16 channels rather than the limited number often available in an interface such as mine?

The mixer in Rig #2 (and the Multimix) come with a firewire card. So in essence, it is the Audio Interface/mixer all in one type deal.
Adding a mixer to your setup (The Fireface-800 is a great AI) won't really give you more independent channels. You will still be limited to the number of inputs on your interface (you could use the mixer to combine channels, but wouldn't have individual control once they are summed into the AI) A mixer is more of a luxury than a nessesity since ITB mixing (In The Box). Some that have always used analog mixers work faster using hands on faders than with a mouse, since that is what they are used to.(IMO)
If i were you i would stick with the Fireface. It has great AD/DA. Especially since you don't need tons of simultaneous inputs.
There are tons of Drum software packages on the market nowadays. If you prefer you can program them with something like Akai MPC or MPD offerings. (i believe they come with drum sounds of their own too.
Just my 2-cents.. hope that helps!

[Tweak]

With the fireface you can easily record 8 channels at once; 16 if you get an ADAT xpander. The fireface is much better than the Alesis. Most people consider it professional grade. You are better off adding more preamps to the fireface than replacing it with an Alesis.

Something like this:

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--PRSDIGIMAXFS


adds 8 preamps to the fireface.

[christianpyro]

^ thanks for the quick replies!

[Tweak]

Since the Onyx is no longer available in the 16 ch format, I have recast rig #2, which is a basic "lets record the band" rig with the ability to also function as a home recording studio center.

Who its for:

Ideal for bands, the advanced home composer, studios that need a lot of mics and those who demand flexibility and superb quality to do whatever they want. Dummers will like the rig, and so will the studio that hosts bands. Its good for multi-room operations where you have a control room (say a bedroom) and a studio room (where people perform) say the living room. It will also do a respectable hardware electronica studio where you need hi power instrument inputs for vintage gear. In both cases the ADAT expandability is there when you need it, with an extra 16 channels with inexpensive converters.


Hooking up this Rig:

Note that with the MOTU 896 mk3, you get into an audio interface that has all the basics for recording a 4pc band (8 mic preamps), yet offers amazing expansion options that will allow you to grow with this interface. The 896 mk3 has dual ADAT i/o, can be turned into an addition 16 ins and outs if you record at a sample rate of 44.1 (and you should!) This gives you a 24x24 system when expanded, not counting the additional s/pdif and AES/EBU digital i/o. The M3 in our example above would have its audio outs connected to the 896mk3's instrument inputs or via ADAT through the line inputs of a Behringer ADA8000 converter.

For MIDI the M3 could connect by USB, However, remember the 896mk3 has no MIDI i/o so if you want to use older synths you need a MIDI interface. That is where MOTU midi express 128 (or other) MIDI interface comes in. It just connects to a USB port. You connect all your 5-pin Standard MIDI cables to it. Your sequencer will see all those MOTU midi ins and outs and all the audio ins an outs of the 896mk3. Pretty amazingly simple for a huge system that can do full bands! The rest you do with the mouse inside the application.

Keep in mind that a non-gigging studio-only musician does not need a keyboard with sounds. You can get by with a keyboard controller and use software synths exclusively.

[HungryHoller]

Hello all,

I just upgraded to this rig. I have a motu ultralite and a motu 8pre that I shall daisy chain together via firewire (thanks apple for getting rid of the 400 firewire port...jerk store!).
I have ditched my Mackie mixer....well not ditched, but not going to use it I don't think.
My perhaps stupid question regarding monitoring is this: i understand hooking up my monitors to the main outs on one of the motus. That is all well and good when I am monitoring my recordings/mixes. However, when I want to listen to music from my Mac from Itunes or whatever for comparing mixes and just listening for pleasure (isn't it all pleasure???), what the heck do I do then? I don't have all the gear yet...well...my Imac hasn't come in yet but it will be here shorty so I can't visualize it and play around with the setup yet. I was thinking I could drag my MP3s over to Logic, but that doesn't seem to be the..er..logical way to do it. Do I need a monitor mixer switcher thing? It's late here, so I may be missing something.
Anywho, thanks for any help or slaps across the face.

[Tweak]

Do I need a monitor mixer switcher thing? It's late here, so I may be missing something.

I don't see why. iTunes will share the main outs with logic. iTunes will use the default selected in the Audio-MIDI utility. Logic will use whatever is defined in Logic audio preferences and they can be the same.

Come back and let us know how it goes with setting up your aggregate device.

[HungryHoller]

Ahhhhhhh....I did not know it did that. That would make a ton of sense....thanks Tweak!

[jtgates]

This rig is the closest to what I have: Mackie 1604 VLZ3, MOTU Ultralite, Apple MAC Pro 17, various mics and processors. My problem: I am a gigging drummer/ percussionist with need for 8-10 mics in my ive setup. I'm increasingly using Logic to tailor my sound so I need the firewire connection to my MAC. I'm getting tired of lugging the Mackie to my gigs so I can get the extra preamps for my mics. I love my MOTU, and have considered adding a 8 Pre to my setup. I don't like the idea that I can't use ADAT to connect the 8 Pre to my Ultralite. I also like having the mixer handy to tweak something quickly, (nothing like having to navigate 6 menus to cut a rogue freak, and do it on the fly whilst hitting 4 different percussion pieces.)

In hindsite, I should have gotten an 828MK3, but at the time, I was in love with my Mackie and could never see a time when I wouldn't need it. Are there any alternatives to trying to sell my Mackie so I can afford an 896? Is it worth considering daisychaining the Ultralite and an 8 Pre to get the extra pres I need? Will the Cuemix FX app control the Ultralite and the 8 pre from one session or will I have to open one window for each piece? Will I be giving up anything in terms of flexibility and/or bandwidth and processing power on my MAC with this approach? Are the digital mixers - ZED R16, Onyx 1640i, etc..., worth considering? Are they portable enough for my needs?

Thanks,
JT

[HungryHoller]

I'm still a newb of sorts, but I have the ultralite and an 8pre daisychained with firewire. No need for the light pipe. It was pretty much plug and play for me. Look online about how to set up an aggregate device so that you can listen to your Itunes and your motu drivers all at once, that should be helpful to you down the road. One session of the cuemix is all you need as well as far as I know. I had the Mackie setup as well, but I must say I enjoy the ease of having all my mics going to the motus. As far as controlling your mixer for your rogue freqs and what not, I know that Behringer makes a decent/cheap control surface: http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--BEHBCF2000. I have an AxiomPro 49 that is pretty awesome..but it's a bit more expensive. It's more of a keyboard with drum pads and faders to control Logic though...a mix of everything. You wouldn't have to navigate so many menus if you took the time to set up some templates and set up some screen sets. Trust me, I learned the hard way. I should have done that at the beginning! I have my first screen set showing my mixer/arrange windows. The other screen sets have all my eq and compressor windows up for my channels. It's something to think about anyway. I really don't think you are giving up any bandwidth or flexibility. In fact, in my opinion, you gain some flexibility simply because of the ease of the two motus. I would keep the Mackie just to have it though...you never know! I use mine to hook up my odds and ends (keyboard, drum machine, turntable etc). I bus em to the 1/4 inch inputs on the ultralite.
I don't know much about the digital mixers, so i can't comment on those.

Anyway, hope that helped you out some.

[drumsishowIrole]

Ok so I have been reading this page religiously so first off Thank you tweak for all your wonderful information
my question is regarding the MOTU's in this rig. (both the mk and the 8pre) I am a bit confused as to the outs of these products. (where on the MOTU 8pre can you hook up outs?)

I have been researching dif interfaces and I cant seem to find what I am looking for. I need a FireWire interface with at least 8 ins but can also be lightpipe expanded. I want it to have outs so I can eventually hook up outboard gear (compressors etc.) I am running a Macbook and will be using Logic Pro.
Just don't really want to spend $1000 on my interface for getting started.

Thanks

[Tweak]

The 8 pre does not have the outputs you want (unless 10 is enough). The Ultralite has no adat.

That leaves the 828mk3 and the 896mk3. The difference is the 896 has more preamps, the 828 is better if you have a lot of line level devices or want to add your own preamps. Both have dual adat so you can go to 24 ch if you use a 44.1 or 48k sample rate. If you plan to use your mixer's preamps definitely I would go 828mk3.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--MTU828MK3/sid--ai3
http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--MTU896MK3/sid--ai3


On a Mac with logic pro you can create an aggregate device.
You could start with an 828 mk 3 then later after you get the mixer get another 828mk3, or get a couple of ada8000 units and expand off adat. http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--BE ... --showroom

Check this out

http://www.tweakheadz.com/reviews/revie ... 6_mk3.html

http://www.tweakheadz.com/setting_up_word_clock.html

[drumsishowIrole]

I will read these over thanks that answered my question! However I think I may be getting ahead of myself though and should definitely start way smaller. But at least now I know my options for when I am further along in my recording experience. So i do believe I am going to go with the firestudio mobile, get my feet wet and take it from there

[black2002ls]

I'm looking to set up a rig like this. I'm trying to get out with less than $500 in Hardware. Leaving room for software options. I will mostly be recording Country artists. Right now, my goal is to set up a basic rig, allowing me to get some demo's recorded for some good friends I have in the local scene so they can start spreading their music around electronically. I was initially going to rent an analog rig and some processing and record mono out, (I've done this with some success at live shows). Now I'm thinking, for the same investment in hardware and the software I would purchase for the mono recording, I can have a basic recording rig that is mine to keep. I know with this budget I'll have to keep it simple, and probably go through a few takes of the song to get all of the inputs recorded. My concerns are things like compression and effects, etc. Are these available in the software packages? Any recommendations on hardware and software would be great.

[prior.mottley]

How many ada8000 units can you link together to the 896mk3?

[SLY_Z_28]

Tweak,

What if i wanted to use the Project Mix instead of the MOTU? Only because, I like the feel of actually tweaking knobs when mixing inside my DAW, instead of using the mouse. Only problem is, I dont understand how to compare the pre-amp quality of each unit or compare the 2 products in general.

I do not use a lot of keyboard stuff or I dont use any synth things yet. Mostly recording rock, punk, and metal music.

[hewhoiscalledj]

Tweak,

What if i wanted to use the Project Mix instead of the MOTU? Only because, I like the feel of actually tweaking knobs when mixing inside my DAW, instead of using the mouse. Only problem is, I dont understand how to compare the pre-amp quality of each unit or compare the 2 products in general.

I do not use a lot of keyboard stuff or I dont use any synth things yet. Mostly recording rock, punk, and metal music.

I dont think the difference between the Project Mix and MOTU preamps will be all that drastic. Apart from actually listening/test driving the 2 units, I'd suggest checking out the specs online or on the manuals. What you are looking for in a preamp is the amount of gain (you want as much as possible) and either transparency or color (which you need to compare by listening/using.)

Kind of a moot point though if you want a control surface w/ built in preamps. I use the Tascam FW1884 myself and use those preamps quite a bit. They are transparent and provide just enough gain (55db) to make the most of my SM58 dynamic mics. For more critical applications like drum overheads, vocals and acoustic guitar, I turn to my trusty FMR RNP preamp. It's only good for 2 channels at a time but I use them for the important stuff. But I agree that is very cool and fun using a control surface, just not exactly necessary. Sometimes I feel like I should have skipped buying the Tascam but it looks pretty [darn] cool on my desk

But to answer your question... you can certainly substitute one for the other and still get some stellar results. Both units are audio interfaces so they do the same basic job.

[SLY_Z_28]

Thanks for the awesome response.

But im worried now that the preamps might not give me the tone or quality i want to record steller vocals and rock/metal drums. Would the MOTU handle vocals and drums better?

[hewhoiscalledj]

If you are on a budget, just get the MOTU. You'll need an audio interface one way or the other and once you have the dough, you can always get some better preamps later. Skip the Promix as I honestly think MOTU should have the edge regarding the preamps anyway. I think most here would also agree...

[SLY_Z_28]

right, but the thing is i think I would really like the Promix because of the actual feel of a mixing board while working in my DAW. Unless you have a better solution to do that as well?

[aww-de-oh]

right, but the thing is i think I would really like the Promix because of the actual feel of a mixing board while working in my DAW. Unless you have a better solution to do that as well?

You can always add a seperate control surface later on.

They range in price and features.
The absolute cheapest one would be the Behringer BCF2000
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHBCF2000