What to buy to mic drums (2000-3000 budget)

[cullumania]

Hey, I'm in the long thought out process of putting together my rig. I want to use an 8 microphone method to record drums. I've set a budget of 2000-3000 dollars for this purpose. Keep in mind I already own (2) SM57's, and (1) Rode NT1-A microphone.

I want to try and stay away from microphones that will give me a cheap trashy sound, like those found in the "drum mic kits'." (I know the sound heavily is dependent on the room and experimentation of the microphone placement)

I'm sure everyone has a slightly different idea of how they like to do the 8 microphone drum style; I have done a fair bit of research but to simplify things could you tell me which microphone you'd buy for which application. (IE Shure Beta 52 For the Kick)

Thanks a bunch, I will look forward to your responses!

[Blue Bear Sound]

This article may give you some tips....
9 Tracks In 2 Days

[nanashiwanderer]

Hey, I'm in the long thought out process of putting together my rig. I want to use an 8 microphone method to record drums. I've set a budget of 2000-3000 dollars for this purpose. Keep in mind I already own (2) SM57's, and (1) Rode NT1-A micropho

Good preamps help a lot.

on the budget side i've heard great things done with Mackie Onyx 800R.

The top choice is API 3124 which could serve as a go to pres for a rig around 2400$. 4 channels. These are the drum pres.

You can use your two SM57s for Snare top and Bottom

For microphones (applications including non drums task)
2x Shure SM81s (Overheads/Room Microphone/Hi Hats) $ 700.00
2x Cascade FatHead Is (Overheads particularly softer stuff, guitar,horns)$ 320
1x AKG D112 (Kick Drum Standard, Bass Cabs, Double Bass/Cello) $ 200
3x Sennhieser E604s (formerly called the Sennhieser MD504, toms) $ 330

Thats 1550$ on microphones. I'd spend the rest on preamps


1675 Can buy an Art MPA, an FMR RNP, and A sytek MPX4 that gives you 8 channels of good pre to work with and 4 varieties.
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If you have good preamps already

Then get

2x Shure SM81 (700$) (overheads/hihats/acoustic guitars/ stereo app)
2x Shure DMK5257 (3x SM57s a Beta 52a and high Quality drum mounts)
1x AKG D112 (Kick Drum standard has a thump type sound v.s Beta 52a is modern clicky both are nice to have)
2x Sennheiser MD421 (Tom Standard, also guitar cabs, cello, horns, kick)
1x Shure SM7b (Toms, Bass Cab, Kick, Vocals, horns)
2x Cascade Fatheads
1x M-Audio Solaris (Room)

$ 2650.00 the latter suggestion is more or less a complete mic cabinet, but these are all no compromise drum mics.

[cullumania]

This is going to sound very weird; but I DON'T want good pre-amps at first. Before you shake your head in awe , private message Tweak and request he bans for me such blasphemy I will give you a little "backstory'."

Right now I'm 16, I'm in the process of saving up 90% of what I'm making. Basicly putting 1400 a month into an ING savings account. I want to move out of home when I'm 25 (living at home means no REAL expenses, allowing me to save as much as possible) and put a down payment on a house/build an in basement studio with the closest thing you can get to pro equipment without spending a million dollars.

The process I'm going through right now is building what I'd simply call a home rig. Which is accessible yet bang for the buck equipment. (Decent microphones, Phonic Firewire MKII Board, Hardware, etc)

Right now I'm just going to be recording demos for local bands for free, this is a win-win situation as it allows me to gain experience and them to get some free demos for their myspace. Because I don't have an actual "studio" I'm going to be working with [deleted] acoustic environments.

Which leads me to the reason behind using mediocore preamps (per example Presonus Digimax FS for drums). A [deleted] acoustic environment and mediocore preamps will hone my skills to manipulate tracks much better than working in a perfect environment (which is impossible at this point anyways). Meaning when I get to the end goal down the road of building my own in home studio with a booth, acoustic treatment, the works, (And yes, GREAT PREAMPS) I will hopefully be THAT much better.

I hope this sounds logical.

Thanks for the advice so far, I'll do research on the microphones mentioned.

[Chiledog]

Question:
Why would you spend $3K on equipment to record in a "crappy" environment? You could have have $10K worth of equipment in that type of environment and still have essentially "crap".

The reason I say this is, acoustic drums in a recording situation, are completely dependent on the room they are recorded in. Yes, even close miced, the room still effects the recording.

If you are not interested in fixing the environment you are recording in, take your $3K and buy an Ekit...all of your problems solved. No micing technique required, no acoustic treatment/sound proofing, just plug and play!

Best of luck to you and your pursuits...most of all have fun doing it!



Todd

[nanashiwanderer]

Right now I'm 16, I'm in the process of saving up 90% of what I'm making. Basicly putting 1400 a month into an ING savings account. I want to move out of home when I'm 25 (living at home means no REAL expenses, allowing me to save as much as possible) and put a down payment on a house/build an in basement studio with the closest thing you can get to pro equipment without spending a million dollars.

You have your priorities wrong. If your goal is to get professional sound for as cheap as possible then you should be focusing on getting decent preamps, and room acoustics, then monitors.




While its important to have enough microphones to do what you want to do. The microphone only ever sounds as good as the preamp lets it and the drummer only as good as the kit allows and the room allows. A nice set of nice preamps and a few good microphones. Makes a much bigger difference than having a set of bad preamps and a set of excellent microphones. To put it truth fully half the mics I listed, and almost all of which are considered excellent drum microphones sound like crap through bad pres, SM57s and Cascade Fat heads need gain that budget pres can't provide. To put it bluntly you have never heard why an SM57 is an industry standard until you've put it through a decent preamp. Because the very characteristics of the mic change. and Its not an issue that your interface is a little worse than good preamps. the difference between a 1000$ mic on a 100$ preamp and a 100 $ preamp is a lot smaller than difference between a 100$ mic on a 100$ preamp, and a 100$ mic on a 1000$ preamp.

in todays world. 10,000 $ or so can get you remarkably close to pro sound for someone recording bands. 5000$ can get you a good start and thats including everything but thats only if your spending the money the right way. Spending 3000$ on a set of mics when your running through crappy pres and untreated room, is 3000$ wasted, because if you spend 1000$ on treatment, a 1000$ on a set of pres, and 1000$ on mics, you would be a lot closer to professional than the 3000$ on mics gets you.

[cullumania]

I think you might of slightly misinterpreted what I was trying to say; but your answer still did help me. Thanks a bunch.

[nanashiwanderer]

i think i understand what your getting at. but i'm saying that there are certain investments you can make now that make now even if your trying to keep a setup to move on down the road. Buying a couple of good pres (cheaper ones like the Sytek and RNP) are pieces you'll never sell, and let you get the most of your mics now. The thing is if you get a bunch of good mics down the road, they won't benifit you. A few good microphones, though just less of them and a couple of pres are going to tkae you further. and even when you go to what ever bigger studio your planning to build you'll wind up keeping them. Versus 3000$ on mics now, with out good pres your not going to get any real benifit from them. Heck I've used those Presonus Digimax Pres, and I can tell you they sound like crap with the SM57 and the MD421, the SM7b and ribbons. (and if you don't think they sound like Crap that just means you've never heard good).

[blue9girl9]

so what's a "good" preamp? can someone suggest something?

[nanashiwanderer]

Its something subjective. A good preamp in my books is one that doesn't get in the way of getting a good sound with most microphones. A lot of microphones suck or are lack luster through a bad pre that are more or less professional workhorses when through highend units.

On this forum the threshold for a good preamp is something thats more or less on par with FMR's RNP/True Systems P-solo/Dav BG/Sytek MPX. With a couple of pres like the Apogee Mini MI, Presonus M20, Rane MS1b, and ART pro VLA, and I'd say mackie onyx that are gray areas, as it depends on what your recording.

[Erosion]

Everyone's opinion is completely subjective so always remember that. On a forum like this you are never going to get a "right" answer. Just suggestions that work for certain people.

In my opinion microphones affect the overall sound of a recording way more than a preamp.

If you are creative you can find interesting acoustic spaces in your home, and create dampening with household items(mattresses, pillows, etc...) Then you can solve that issue as well.

While it is certainly important to have at least 2 ch, of a decent preamp, (ie something better than digimax) I think what you have will do fine for drums. I would make sure that you have a nice vocal chain, and guitar chain...and the rest can sound good to great with mediocre pres.

This is my opinion. A good microphone can still sound good through your pre's...maybe not a 2 thousand dollar condenser, or a dynamic for vocals...but thats about it.

To everyone their own.

[Rimskidog]

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