v-amp2/PODXT vs. Guitar Rig

[3leggedbrain]

Is there a big difference in sound quality between the hardware amp modelers and NI's software amp modeler? Are these 3 products roughly in the same league, sonically speaking??

I've tried the demo of NI's Guitar Rig, but I don't have access to the V-amp or PODXT where I'm at...

[cheshirechap]

Check out the Pod XT forum... I have one and love it. It's expensive though at $270+ with $99 for model packs and possibly a post-EQ. It's all but replaced my tube amp.

[Hepcat62]

i just got a V-Amp Pro, and am very satisfied with it. I have extensive experience with the Line 6 units, and both manufacturers have strong and weak points at this time. I recorded some tracks using a 57 on a nice sounding Marshall JCM800 with a Marshall 4z12 cab, and then recorded the same parts using my best approximation of that rig on the v-amp. Was it the same? No, it wasn't. But it was close enough (especially for how much the V-Amp costs), and the differences are in some cases correctable through addtional processing, and in many cases irrelevant once the guitar has been situated in a mix.

Brian

[3leggedbrain]

any idea how NI's Guitar Rig software measures up to the POD and the V-amp?

[italiansausage14]

yeah i used a demo of Guitar rig. go to native instruments webpage and you can get a demo of guitar rig. It has some sweet options and sounds good, but it is pretty much limited to recording (ie. can't use it live unless you have a labtop but you probably aren't buying it to play live). Having played both i'd go with the pod xt. I really like some aspects of the guitar rig, but the xt is the way to go. (for me anyways)

[jamz]

It's probably just me, but i don't think Guitar rig's all that great. Specially for really heavy distortion.

If you want to hear some vamp samples, check this out:

http://korb.home.sapo.pt/

Really cool guy, really cool mp3

[3leggedbrain]

ok thanks for the help...

I was leaning towards Guitar Rig but the comments got me looking around and a lot of people are very happy with the Podxt. Do you guys know if there's a big difference in sound between the Podxt and the Podxt Pro?

[italiansausage14]

http://www.line6.com/products.html?category=3
I believe that the biggest difference is that the Pod XT Pro is meant to be used in a rack mount and has a few more more digital ins and outs. The pod xt live is the same as the pod xt but in a multi-effects pedal setup.

[cheshirechap]

The XT live does not have as many effects from what I understand.

[3leggedbrain]

I also read on another forum that XT live doesn't have as many knobs as the others, so tweaking the sound may be more tedious...

[3leggedbrain]

Well, I can't decide between the kidney-shaped XT and the XT Pro...

The thing with the Pro is that I could go digital into my 828mkII via the S/PDIF. The cheaper PodXT has USB, but from what I've read this doesn't work so well with Sonar 3...problems with 24-bit recording and multiple soundcards, etc.

So, do you guys think the xtra $400 would be worth going directly digital? Or do you think the difference between one and two A/D conversions is negligible?

[veganMalcontent]

$600 is just absurd for the XT Pro. I would never use a Pod for guitar tone anyway, but if I did, I would definitely want to minimize the number of AD/DA conversions. Nobody ever seems to talk about this, but I always wonder about the problem of aliasing when running in and out of a bunch of digital processors analog-style. Doesn't the V-Amp Pro have digital I/O for like $170? Has it been established that the Pod XT Pro sounds that much better?


Sam

[3leggedbrain]

Has it been established that the Pod XT Pro sounds that much better?

I've stumbled upon many opinions...some say there's little to no difference, some say otherwise. I'm not in a position to go to a music store and check it out firsthand (I live in Japan, don't speak Japanese, don't know the area too well). After sifting through many forums I'm leaning towards the notion that the Pod may be slightly superior to the V-amp. I don't feel too inspired by the price tag, though.

[cheshirechap]

I have the XT kidney bean. I wouldn't run digital if I had it, I just use the stereo out and plug into my emu. It sounds great.

[3leggedbrain]

Why wouldn't you use digital? Going digital would stay true to the sound generated in the Pod. I just wonder if going anolog will degrade the sound significantly...?

[kernmount]

Was it the same? No, it wasn't. But it was close enough (especially for how much the V-Amp costs), and the differences are in some cases correctable through addtional processing, and in many cases irrelevant once the guitar has been situated in a mix.

That's it in a nutshell. If close enough is good enough for you, go with a V-AMP and save some money. Only the guitar zealots might be able to tell if the the guitar amp is simulated. The V-AMP is a remarkable unit for the price.

One side note though. After listening to a few tracks recorded using the V-VAMP (see my song lists below, the newer songs were recorded using a V-AMP2 and older ones using a 2X12 Twin Reverb), everytime you listen to them, there's a little voice in the back of your brain that complains that you cheated a bit.

[Hepcat62]

One side note though. After listening to a few tracks recorded using the V-VAMP (see my song lists below, the newer songs were recorded using a V-AMP2 and older ones using a 2X12 Twin Reverb), everytime you listen to them, there's a little voice in the back of your brain that complains that you cheated a bit. But that usually lasts just a second or two.

Indeed.

I just checked out NI's Guitar Rig, and I came away VERY impressed. It's now officially on my purchase list. I don't see it as competing with my V-Amp purchase, because there are some tones that I can get with the V-Amp (because it has more variety of amp models) that I don't seem to be able to replicate in Guitar Rig (at least not in my demo copy; maybe things would change in the full version). The amps and effects that ARE simulated in Guitar Rig are done so EXTREMELY well, and the level of control is astounding.

The ability to mix and match multiple amps, cabs, effects, and microphones/positions pretty much any way you can imagine (up to the limits of your CPU) is phenominal. The amp simulations allow you to adjust the mains voltage frequency entering the unit (50/60) as well as adjust the voltage coming into the power supply with the variac control. That's phenomenal, as it lets you approximate the effects of all of those Hot Plates, etc., that all guitarists with big tube amps love dearly.

Anyway, enough rambling on for now, but Guitar Rig is serious software, and the included foot controller just sweetens the deal. I've used Line6 AmpFarm on TDM many times before, and so long as your CPU can handle NI Guitar Rig while doing guitar overdubs (meaning, while playing back all of your other tracks, with low enough latency to be playable), then I'd pick Guitar Rig over AmpFarm ANY day. The level of control and the usability is just SOO high...

Brian

[3leggedbrain]

My 30 day trial demo of Guitar Rig just ended. It's certainly impressive, but I could only get it to sound good (to my ears) with just one of my songs. The massive load it put on my CPU wasn't very fun (I've got a Pentium 4 2.2 ghz).

In regards to the V-amp 2 and the PodXT: based on the handful of samples scattered around the web, I'm guessing that I'd prefer the XT (the sound samples of the model packs were what settled it for me). I agree the difference in price between the two gadgets doesn't accurately reflect the difference in quality, but quality is very important to me at this point.

[kernmount]

I agree the difference in price between the two gadgets doesn't accurately reflect the difference in quality, but quality is very important to me at this point.

Then you might want to stick with an amp.

The one complaint I forgot to mention is that it's impossible to simulate amp flakiness or tube age or whatever. (you can't kick your POD/V-AMP to get the spring reverb to crash ) The sound 'always sounds the same' with modelers, which for most folks is just fine. Most of the time, it's OK with me.

[3leggedbrain]

Then you might want to stick with an amp.

I imagine I would just go with an amp if it weren't for my sleeping kids, the neighbors, and the fact that I'd probably have to invest a few years before I had even a clue how to capture the sound I want. I know amp modeling will have its limitations, but I actually think I'd be limited even more so with one or two amps (speaking not only of tone but also convenience).

[kernmount]

Then you might want to stick with an amp.

I imagine I would just go with an amp if it weren't for my sleeping kids, the neighbors, and the fact that I'd probably have to invest a few years before I had even a clue how to capture the sound I want. I know amp modeling will have its limitations, but I actually think I'd be limited even more so with one or two amps (speaking not only of tone but also convenience).

Well many of us share the situation. I'm in the process of buying a house, and the main criteria is that I am far enough away from my neighbors to play my amp. (I've been an apartment dweller for most of my entire life, so I can relate)

I think behind this dilemma for many us is guitar-purity guilt. It's a strange cult we belong to, us guitar players. There's a certainly liberty we think we have when we play, so I think some of us feel that we're betraying the art if we hand over the control to a model's dials. It's just another tool, really. So if you choose a V-AMP (my recommendation) or a POD, you'll be shocked how good they sound. I plan on using it for gigs.

There are a couple of sites on the Internet that have Pod 2 patches for the V-AMP. I guess it depends how fancy you want to be. I've never used more than 4 amp/cab combos with my V-AMP. (a Black Twin with a Marshall or better a Hi-Watt Cab produces some really schizoid tones or for the initiated, Pete Townsend's sound. ) Sure, I farted around a lot, but when it came time to print my tracks, it was the same 4 settings(tones) I've been using for 15 years. If I want fancier effects, like chorus or additional compression or delay or whatever, I usually apply those in my sequencer and not in my V-AMP.

Good Luck. Let us know what you choose. Oh and watch out for retail sales folk. Many of them will bash Behringer for disingenuous reasons. Most of them don't like the brand because the margins (and their commissions) are thin. Behringer has put the profit squeeze on the sales channel apparently from what I've gathered from GC sales managers.

[3leggedbrain]

It'll be a while before I actually make the purchase, but I'll let you know when I do. Thanks for all the advice!

Brian