MOTU UltraLite (Review)

[jnz]

Does anyone prefer UltraLite to 8Pre ?

They're not comparable units. The UltraLite has 6 Analog INs, 8 Analog Outs, 2 Mic preamps, and SPDIF digital in/out. The 8Pre has 8 preamps and 1 ADAT digital i/o. Preferring one over the other will depend on what you need.

[jnz]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't made it to page 10 yet...

Really...

[guitarfish]

I've just started looking at a replacement AI so been researching back through some old threads. The Ultralite sounds like a good fit for me, but between last week and this week it seems to have been reborn on the MOTU site as the 'mk3 hybrid' http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite-mk3/. It still shows up in ZZOUNDS as a straight Firewire interface http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--MTUULMK3

The USB might actually help my migration path from the current DAW (P2.8, Windows XP, Edirol DA2496 PCI interface, has USB2.0 but no Firewire) to the next generation (contemplating i7 / Windows 7 / Firewire (with TI chipset )). If I used the hybrid over USB2 I could get up to speed with a new interface with my current DAW before I deal with the replacement...

What could possibly go wrong?

[Martin_Taylor]

Greetings All:

Been a bit of time since was last here; taking care of my Dad who is now living with us....Not much spare time.

Planning on getting a Macbook Pro, 15 inch (OSX 10.6.3 Snow Leopard) with the 2.66GHz Core i7 and Logic Studio.

Am torn between the Saffire+PRO+24+DSP or the MOTU UltraLite-mk3+Hybrid.
Have been bouncing around various sites, reading the posts and many of the issues were due to:
1. Not RT*M

2. Drivers not up to date. Some even stated, that if your MOTU is woring without issues, don't update drivers.

The MOTU UltraLite-mk3+Hybrid is about the highest $ amount I can go at this time.

Opinions are greatly welcomed; regarding external FW-HD daisy chained between the MAC and the Firewire Interface, any suggestions to brand?

Thanks ya'll; still see many of the wisened ones

Martin

[_controlfreak]

i7? Nice. I'm jealous. This is going to sound like shaky reasoning, but I would still strongly recommend getting the UltraLite because you're also getting a MacBook Pro and Logic. The other interface you mentioned is "Focusrite's Latest" (according to their own site). Nothing personal against Focusrite, but for them, that's not necessarily a good thing.

I have two UltraLites and two Firewire drives daisy-chained together w/o any problems; latest drivers (although not mk3's), latest OSX update. They happen to be LaCie's, but anything with an Oxford chipset would be fine (e.g. G-Drive, OWC; pretty much anything that isn't Western Digital or some $89 drive Staples is selling).

You'll need a Firewire 800 -> 400 cable/adapter; they're cheap. On drives like the LaCie Quadra, you can't daisy chain into one of the two 800 ports and then out the 400 port. Only on the dual 800 ports. So look for either dual 800 or 400 jacks, not just multiple jacks. Again, killer setup. I'd also recommend upgrading your RAM to 8GB through someplace like Crucial; they have decently-priced kits and installation is a breeze.

[Tweak]

Is there a manual for the ultralite available online? I couldn't find one.

Thanks.

www.motu.com

you have to register to get it.

[ayoung75]

Hey folks!

New to the forums, and this particular thread has some great info in it, but had a few questions.

Currently I've been using the UltraLite Mk3 for a little over a year and a half now, and been pleased with it, but I'm looking to 'upgrade' somewhat. I started out using the on-board preamps, and after a little while, picked up two dbx 286a, because I wanted to get the compression before the A/D. That's been working thus far (I mainly do voiceover/podcasting sorta applications) but am looking to want to get a 'four channels all the same' sort of setup.

What I'm currently thinking is that I would like move to running my mics through an RME Quadmic and dbx 1046 and then into the back of the MOTU. I just haven't been able to find an RME 'in the wild' to hear how it compares against what I've already got. I just like the idea of being able to get 4 clean channels in 2 RU, and then run everything into the MOTU.

I was looking at trying to find something that was firewire and JUST does A/D and has line-ins rather than built in pre-amps, but those appear to be several thousand dollars, so a bit out of my budget.

Currently running Logic 9.1.4 (although pondering Protools 9) on a MBP i7 (8gb/250 SSD/500gb FW project drive).

thanks!
Andy

[_controlfreak]

Hmm... Logistically, there's nothing wrong with your proposed changes, but I don't think they'll give you little practical improvement in terms of noticeable sound quality. The 1/2 rack unit requirement complicates things. I'm sure a QuadMic will sound a little better than the UL pre. I really doubt it'd sound better than a high-end (non 1/2U) 4-channel unit (the ISA 428 comes to mind).

What kind of mics are you using? Dynamics into a good pres will sound better than cheaper condensers; dynamics will be a must if you're tracking 4 speakers at once. A higher-end interface would be nice, but A/D isn't the bottleneck. At the very high end, interfaces have no A/D, as that's handled by dedicated converters.

So, yes, upgrade your pres. Upgrading them to a 1/2U box won't be much of an upgrade. And upgrading pres won't save the sound of $99ish condensers. Your A/D is fine; use the line inputs on the back of the UL.

[ayoung75]

Hmm... Logistically, there's nothing wrong with your proposed changes, but I don't think they'll give you little practical improvement in terms of noticeable sound quality. The 1/2 rack unit requirement complicates things. I'm sure a QuadMic will sound a little better than the UL pre. I really doubt it'd sound better than a high-end (non 1/2U) 4-channel unit (the ISA 428 comes to mind).

What kind of mics are you using? Dynamics into a good pres will sound better than cheaper condensers; dynamics will be a must if you're tracking 4 speakers at once. A higher-end interface would be nice, but A/D isn't the bottleneck. At the very high end, interfaces have no A/D, as that's handled by dedicated converters.

So, yes, upgrade your pres. Upgrading them to a 1/2U box won't be much of an upgrade. And upgrading pres won't save the sound of $99ish condensers. Your A/D is fine; use the line inputs on the back of the UL.

Hey there, thanks for the response! So actually I have a total of 3U to work with, which is currently taken up with the MOTU and the 2 dbx units. I'm trying to keep this in a 4 RU box (3 + furman) to keep this mostly portable. I'm pretty much only using dynamics with rig, currently my 'main mic' is a Heil PR40, and the other mics (slowly upgrading them) are currently Shure Beta58a.

And thanks for the advice on the A/D. I'm just pondering if I want to use the MOTU as an ultra-portable (which it is) 2 mic interface, and get another interface long-term (maybe the 828? heh) for the 4U box.

[_controlfreak]

I'm just pondering if I want to use the MOTU as an ultra-portable (which it is) 2 mic interface, and get another interface long-term (maybe the 828? heh) for the 4U box.

OK... you clearly have a strong grasp of which products have which features. And there are a lot of options. I think part of the "problem" here, if I may be frank, is that you aren't really sure what you want for a workflow. 828's are great. And UL's are ultra-portable (that's a slick term, btw - I'm totally gonna crib that one).

There's a couple things you may want to really think about, and I dislike raining on your parade as much as you won't like hearing them: Good 4-channel preamps don't come in 1/2U sizes. The FMR RNP is an outstanding 2-ch pre, and 1/2U. I know you know what the dbx's do and like them. But really, they should be tossed from your setup.

Two RNP's (1U total) or a single ISA (2U) will be a major step up in terms of preamp quality. You can compress in post; you'll have more options, and it won't sound any worse. This saves you the expense of a 2nd interface (with preamps that are merely "as good as" what you already have). The Heil's a fabulous mic; I think you'll like it even more through a decent preamp.

On a final side note for the peanut gallery, I know RME's interfaces have good preamps on them. I don't know if that 4ch 1/2U box has the same caliber pres; the price-to-channel ratio doesn't quite add up. Plus, RME is known for having good interfaces. With good preamps. Their pres didn't make them famous and now "OMG now they make interfaces too!"

[ayoung75]

OK... you clearly have a strong grasp of which products have which features. And there are a lot of options. I think part of the "problem" here, if I may be frank, is that you aren't really sure what you want for a workflow. 828's are great. And UL's are ultra-portable (that's a slick term, btw - I'm totally gonna crib that one).

There's a couple things you may want to really think about, and I dislike raining on your parade as much as you won't like hearing them: Good 4-channel preamps don't come in 1/2U sizes. The FMR RNP is an outstanding 2-ch pre, and 1/2U. I know you know what the dbx's do and like them. But really, they should be tossed from your setup.

Two RNP's (1U total) or a single ISA (2U) will be a major step up in terms of preamp quality. You can compress in post; you'll have more options, and it won't sound any worse. This saves you the expense of a 2nd interface (with preamps that are merely "as good as" what you already have). The Heil's a fabulous mic; I think you'll like it even more through a decent preamp.

On a final side note for the peanut gallery, I know RME's interfaces have good preamps on them. I don't know if that 4ch 1/2U box has the same caliber pres; the price-to-channel ratio doesn't quite add up. Plus, RME is known for having good interfaces. With good preamps. Their pres didn't make them famous and now "OMG now they make interfaces too!"

Oh sorry, I guess I had not explained fully. In terms of my overall setup, I'm very aware that the 1/2U restriction is definitely something that is going to really really limit my selections, so no, that wasn't a requirement at all. IDEALLY I'd love to have everything fit into the 4U half-depth gatorcase for when I'm on the road, but I realize that might not happen. I'm absolutely digging into both the ISA and RNP options as well, just to do my due diligence.

So honestly, people don't recommend doing any limiting/compression before the A/D? I'm just in situations where there can and are sudden loud noises (at conventions) and whatnot, and I really don't want to clip my tracks, so I figured at least a small amount of outboard compression is always a good idea. So the thought of running say the ISA into a dbx1046 then into the MOTU seems like not a great plan then to cover such? I of course am always compressing after the fact as well, as yes it gives me WAY more options.

As far as mics go, yeah, I'm REALLY digging the Heil, and honestly wish it was possible to have a set of 4 of those, but small moves, small moves.

[prashbez]

Hi

Great review. Really puts things in perspective. I'm new to recording and mixers/ soundcards so wanted some suggestions from more experience users on this forum. I'm giving below my set up and my requirements and would be glad for any advice/ suggestions:

Currently I've been recording into Garageband on my Apple Macbook through my Alesis USB 320 Studio Monitors, which have a USB connection for recording. However I recently purchased some new equipment (A Roland GR-55 Guitar Synthesizer and a Digitech GSP 1101 Guitar Effects Processor) and I find that now I am unable to record into Garageband as there is a lot of distortion/ noise when I record through the Alesis studio monitors USB connection. I've tried to adjust the levels of my Roland GR-55 guitar synth and the Digitech GSP 1101 guitar effects processor but it doesn't help and I still get distorted recordings which I can't use anywhere.

I'm using either an Ibanez RG 570 Electric Guitar or a Schecter Damien FR-6 Electric Guitar through my Digitech GSP-1101 guitar effects processor and a nylon string handmade classical guitar for my guitar parts and a Roland XP-80 Keyboard workstation for keyboard parts. Now that I have the Roland GR-55 guitar synth, I'll also be using that for keyboard parts. I'm using Garageband on my Intel Macbook which has 2 GB RAM and a 80 GB hard disk (to be increased soon)but am looking to upgrade to a new DAW (not sure which one to use though).

So basically I'm looking for options for more inputs and outputs for recording. I'm giving below my requirements and would be glad for suggestions on which product would be suitable for my purposes. This is what I want to do with my current equipment:

1. Recording my electric guitars routed through the Roland GR-55, which has two line outputs (left and right). I want to connect both outputs to the mixer/ soundcard.

2. Recording my electric guitar (normal pickup sound) routed through the Guitar Out jack of the Roland GR-55 and going into the Digitech GSP 1101 guitar effects processor, which also has two line outputs (left and right), which I want to connect to the mixer/ soundcard.

3. Recording vocals using my Shure SM-58 Microphone or recording my nylon string classical guitar through the SM-58 microphone.

4. Recording my Roland XP-80 keyboard in audio or MIDI (both options would be nice).

5. Connecting the above instruments and then sending the outputs of the Mixer/ soundcard to the left and right inputs in my Alesis 320 USB Studio Monitors.

6. I would like to individually record each sound from the above instruments on separate tracks and then do the final mixing in Garageband or a similar DAW software.

My band and I want to record all the instruments in stereo and not mono. I am new to mixers/ soundcards so I'm not sure how many inputs I would need to be able to connect my equipment in the above mentioned manner. I'd be grateful for your advice on that.

I could be wrong but from what I understand to connect both the left and right outputs of my GR-55 guitar synth and the GSP-1101 guitar effects processor, I would need to utilise 4 guitar inputs on any the mixers/ soundcards. In addition, to connect the Mic/ record my nylon string guitar, I would need one Mic input (assuming that the output from this is a stereo output). Plus to connect my Roland XP-80 keyboard by using the left and right outputs on the keyboard as audio outputs, I would need another 2 inputs on the mixer/ soundcard. In total to connect all my equipment, I understand that I would need 7 inputs in total if the Mic input gives a stereo output. In addition if I wanted to connect my keyboard through Midi, I would need Midi In and Out as well. I don't intend to record drums in the future but may want to record a Bass guitar (once I buy one) at a later stage so another input may be required for that.

Based on the above I'd be grateful if:

1. Anyone could advise me on how many inputs and outputs would I need to connect all my equipment mentioned above?

2. Whether to buy a Firewire/ USB Mixer and record directly into Garageband or buy a good Firewire/ USB sound card through which I can record? I believe that Firewire is a better technology to record music with though slightly more expensive. However money is not such a major issue for me within certain limits, so I'd like to go for the best possible sound quality. My budget could range between 400 to 700 USD maximum.

3. Whether I would need both a mixer and a soundcard or can I manage with just a mixer or a soundcard? If possible I just want one soundcard or one mixer and not both due to space constraints. Further I wanted a rackmount mixer/ soundcard for reasons of space constraints. I also don't want to have to keep my laptop on all the time especially when I'm not recording anything and just practising.

4. Based on the above, which Mixers/ Soundcards would you suggest? I'm ready to spend a little extra provided I get something that is high quality, connects all my equipment and gives me high quality recording.

The options available to me and suggested to me are given below:

1. MOTU Ultralite MK-3 Hybrid (This seems to be good since it has both a mixer option and a soundcard option)

2. Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40 and Sapphire Pro 24

3. Tascam US-1800

4. MOTU 8 Pre

5. M-Audio Profire 2626

6. MOTU 828 MK-3

7. MOTU Traveller MK-3

I did some basic research and its seems that the MOTU Ultralite MK-3 Hybrid would suit my purposes but its better to get advice from the experts so here I am.

Look forward to your response and advice/ suggestions.

Thanks and regards
Prash

[myeggsareboiled]

Firstly, your SM58 does not have a stereo output. The huge majority of microphones are mono. If you want a stereo signal there, you'd need to use two microphones (one left, one right).

For your four guitar connections, you'll need to check your synth/effects processor, to see if the outputs are line level, or high-z. A standard guitar outputs high-z, and as such requires a different sort of jack socket to a line level device. I suspect your effects processor will be high-z, unless you are using outputs labelled 'cab simulator/d.i.' or similar. Not sure about your synth. The Motu 8pre has combo jacks on all its inputs that can deal with microphones (xlr), High-z (guitars, basses etc), and Line level (keys etc).

It has to be said though, why you'd want two stereo guitar inputs is beyond me! I understand you may occasionally want to use spacial stereo effects such as ping-pong delay or flange, but chances are, the sounds in garageband are better than in your effects pedal anyway. Guitar is a mono instrument, and 99 times out a hundred, a mono connection is more than sufficient.

The 8pre doesn't have midi, so you'd need a separate midi to usb cable for that.

[aww-de-oh]

@ ayoung75:

the DBX equipment, while not the worst in the world, is more known for 'live performance' rather than studio recording.
As far as using a compressor goes;
as long as you're recording in 24bit, you can usually leave yourself alot of headroom without risk of bringing the noisefloor with you when you raise levels later. (in fact, most 24bit equipment is calibrated to between -24 to -18dbFS... where you don't want to record any louder than that, or you'll get some distortion)Though, i can see in a conference setting where the unexpected loud noise could come in...
Try, next time, recording with enough headroom that you'll not clip (without the compressor). You may find you can get on nicely without it before the ADc.

(+1 to the preamps suggested by _CF)

You might, depending on the environment, get some good use out of some "portable" acoustic panels stragically placed.. but you know your situation better than i.. and how convenient it would be to lug around a couple of these would be*. I dunno if you're recording someone standing at a podium or a more intimate 'interview' type setting. (the latter could be ideal for a gobo or couple broadband traps, depending on the situation)

*for a reference, the 'simple DIY' in my signature weighs in at around 12 lbs. Not heavy.. but awkward, more than anything to port around.

[ayoung75]

@aww-de-oh and others, ABSOLUTELY appreciate the feedback and insight.

For a little background, I'm not entirely sure that I can call what I do a 'studio setting', because a lot of the time I'm recording these, it's live, and in one take, roughly 1hour-1.5 hours long. So I'm checking levels as we are going, and making sure we're laying down decent track, but this is not a situation where I can go back and do things again if I didn't get it right the first time.

So that is part of the reason I'm trying to make sure I've got a solid signal/sound when I'm actually hitting the record button, as of course I run everything through post (doing some compression and cleanup there), but it's also streaming live at the time to places like ustream or justin.tv

@ ayoung75:

the DBX equipment, while not the worst in the world, is more known for 'live performance' rather than studio recording.
As far as using a compressor goes;
as long as you're recording in 24bit, you can usually leave yourself alot of headroom without risk of bringing the noisefloor with you when you raise levels later. (in fact, most 24bit equipment is calibrated to between -24 to -18dbFS... where you don't want to record any louder than that, or you'll get some distortion)Though, i can see in a conference setting where the unexpected loud noise could come in...
Try, next time, recording with enough headroom that you'll not clip (without the compressor). You may find you can get on nicely without it before the ADc.

(+1 to the preamps suggested by _CF)

You might, depending on the environment, get some good use out of some "portable" acoustic panels stragically placed.. but you know your situation better than i.. and how convenient it would be to lug around a couple of these would be*. I dunno if you're recording someone standing at a podium or a more intimate 'interview' type setting. (the latter could be ideal for a gobo or couple broadband traps, depending on the situation)

*for a reference, the 'simple DIY' in my signature weighs in at around 12 lbs. Not heavy.. but awkward, more than anything to port around.