Howto write pro lyrics if you are not native En speaker?

[OnceMe]

Howto do it? I know alot of words but one problem is my grammar.. i cant be sure is it totally correct by grammar.. and also i wont publish my lyrics on any forum cause might be take away by some other artist or by copyright etc.. I dont know all EN words but i know most of them.. and i have google translate but still there is that problem which i need to pass through.. what to do? how to do it pro?

[timboalogo]

Hmmm ... that's a tough one. We have some ESLers (English as a Second Language) here, maybe they'll be able to shed some light on this.

One thing to keep in mind is that lyrics don't always use the "best" English, so you probably don't have to worry as much about the grammar quality of the lyrics.

Be sure to compose them in English, not in your first language, so you get to practice the feel of it.

Anyone else with thoughts?

[nitten]

Speaking as an ESL, don't worry to much about grammar when it comes to lyrics, just make it understandable. Secondly practice, i started to write down the lyrics to other songs when listen to them, take english regularly (even if it's just you around). Watching movies without subs, is a pretty good way to train your english skills, start with english subs, if it's to much. Other then that it's just a matter of keeping at it, read everything an extra time before posting and don't take it to hard if there are a few grammatical errors now and then.

As far as posting lyrics, í have posted numerous verses all over the net, never had one stole. On a board like this, where we got high standards of conduct, i don't think you should worry to much about people stealing your work, also if somebody steal lyrics, that probably to stupid to figure out how to register it as a work, so don't worry about that.

And like timboalogo said, grammar aren't that important in lyrics, a good vibe is way more important, of course lyrics need to be understandable, but a grammatical error might actually make the lyrics better or just don't matter.

[OnceMe]

Yea thanks for answer it helps alot, I realize grammar info's from eminem's songs.. i can always say that im singing in slang

[guitarguy12387]

Go into mainstream rap.... as long as it pseudo-rhymes, that's all that matters.

[nitten]

Yea thanks for answer it helps alot, I realize grammar info's from eminem's songs.. i can always say that im singing in slang

Yeah that's one thing i love about hiphop, you can almost get away with making up your own words. On the other hand, even do i would say i speak and write pretty good in english, my teacher accuses me of using ghetto grammar, whatever that is.

[timboalogo]

On the other hand, even do i would say i speak and write pretty good in english, my teacher accuses me of using ghetto grammar, whatever that is.

Yo.

This be ghetto grammar: Man, dju hear dat rap song yestaday? she tight! her is so sexy. I want to aks her out!

and so on ...

[nitten]

On the other hand, even do i would say i speak and write pretty good in english, my teacher accuses me of using ghetto grammar, whatever that is.

Yo.

This be ghetto grammar: Man, dju hear dat rap song yestaday? she tight! her is so sexy. I want to aks her out!

and so on ...

Well that's pretty close to how i speak when i'm just talking english and not thinking about it, guess he got point, still at least i don't write that way.

[aww-de-oh]

I know many 'English is their only language' artists... that can't write "pro" lyrics... (it can be very hard to come up with the words you're looking for to convey the meaning you want.. that fit into the melody and cadence/beat)

it's a function of practice. And even then... there's no guarantees.
I'd strongly suggest buying a Thesaurus to carry around and study.

I'd also suggest reading old posts by (late) member "Dugz Ink"

[_controlfreak]

I know many 'English is their only language' artists... that can't write "pro" lyrics...

Literally laughed out loud!

If you're ESL: Be careful with rhyming dictionaries. At the very least have an actual (or parallel w/your language) dictionary on hand. The same goes for thesauri: "Mastication" doesn't lend itself to being heard as a "pro" lyric. An unfortunate rhyme pairing with that word even less so.

[ditto]

Or if lyric production of your own is too much for you, you can simply copy others:

http://chicagotheaterblog.com/2010/08/2 ... ton-remix/

[_controlfreak]

[OnceMe]

Huh.. covers are good for improving your voice techniques but i heard from somewhere that copying other may cause "terrible singing" and you will not be yourself and unique. Also if you do covers there is no "money" except fun and publicity. But with publicity comes money right? Anyway i want to write rhymes and i have few ideas.. but there is issue: When i listen to biggie smalls aka Notorious BIG he said in one punchline: "Slit the wrist of little sis" and i need to realize that sis is short of sister for example.. there is too much complications in English lang.. also i dont even know what slit and wrist mean.. i just figure out //got it from google translate and i cant translate it right :S I can write my own rhymes but that rhymes will be not so "pro" such from other rappers.

[jordancolburn]

"Mastication" doesn't lend itself to being heard as a "pro" lyric. An unfortunate rhyme pairing with that word even less so.

Dresden Dolls pulled it off, although it took a few listens to be sure which one was said.

[shaaregeulah]

Here are some lyrics:

"To give him any advice,
I wouldn't dare,
Cause OnceMe lays his tracks with pirated software.

Word!

[nitten]

Here are some lyrics:

"To give him any advice,
I wouldn't dare,
Cause OnceMe lays his tracks with pirated software.

Word!

And the Grammy for best Lyricist goes too [Drum Roll]




Shaaregeulah

[TKMJ Productions]

With most rappers you can't understand the lyrics anyway so it doesn't really matter how they translate. Write anthing you want. It will be a hit or a flop.

Rap has its own un-understandable language so it really doesn't matter.

[Japzz]

I learned a lot about writing gramatically correct english - although far from being perfect yet - by reading english newspapers,novels,comic books,technical magazines,songlyrics,anything etc....Besides developing a sense for the correct grammar and construction of phrases,it may also give you lots of ideas for your songlyrics.A friend of mine,while looking/waiting for inspiration for writing a lyric to a musical idea
,sometimes takes a newspaper which he scans very superficially untill he finds an "attractive" phrase what he uses for a starter."The rest just follows without any effort" according to him......
inspiration

[giga]

i wrote some english lyrics for my own music in the past and realised they werent good enough so i read a lot of novels and set my target on writing my 1st novel,in the style of action thriller,( read a lot of robert ludlum stuff which helps a lot about grammar,vocabs ).
Few years passed (3 yrs indeed )now i think am capable of writing good lyrics and good novels for native readers to enjoy.

But songs are half music,half lyrics if your music is very good,you can get by with decent writing

[_controlfreak]

♫ End of week, I miss you for 2 days ♫

My little brother and I loved that old song of yours, giga!

[Jowboy]

The thing about grammar is that it will only get you half way with any language. Many many many songs throw grammar right out the window. "I Got You, Babe." by Sonny and Cher. It would be more grammatically correct if stated, "I have you, Babe." Any song with the word "ain't" in it is a grammatical nightmare, and that's 90% of country music. As has been stated, hip-hop and rap lyrics are actually written in a new language that is loosely based on English (at least English rap and hip-hop songs are).

Writing lyrics in a language that is not your first language is always a challenge. I've tried in Spanish and it just didn't work. It's not so much the grammar as it is the innate knowledge of how the words in the language go together poetically and rhythmically. I suppose if you speak the language long enough you can certainly get the gist of it, but if you are still thinking in your native tongue and translating mentally as you speak (me with Spanish) you're probably not there yet.

Not that it's not worth trying, I'm just pointing out that grammar is not the 100% cure for foreign language lyric writing.

[timboalogo]

The thing about grammar is that it will only get you half way with any language.

Great point, Jowboy. I worked in French years ago, thought I was bilingual but then we'd go to lunch and all these French speakers would be joking around and I didn't get 1/10th of what they were talking about. Learned then and there that language is more than grammar books and courses.

[nitten]

Writing lyrics in a language that is not your first language is always a challenge. I've tried in Spanish and it just didn't work. It's not so much the grammar as it is the innate knowledge of how the words in the language go together poetically and rhythmically. I suppose if you speak the language long enough you can certainly get the gist of it, but if you are still thinking in your native tongue and translating mentally as you speak (me with Spanish) you're probably not there yet.

Another thing you have to remember is that the lyrics isn't written for the public, especially when you are writing in a second language, you need to write in a way that make sense for you, not everybody else.

[_controlfreak]

When I see the phrase "How to write pro lyrics," I assume commercial viability trumps self-expression and artistic integrity. You can certainly achieve the first while preserving the other two. But having only the last two doesn't entitle you to the first.

[Jowboy]

Another thing you have to remember is that the lyrics isn't written for the public, especially when you are writing in a second language, you need to write in a way that make sense for you, not everybody else.

That depends. If your music is solely for your enjoyment in your living room, then you're absolutely right. However, if commercial viability is not your goal but artistic expression is it is still important that your audience gets the feel of what you're trying to say. Certain phrases lose all their emotional power when they're rearranged into grammatically correct form. For many "artists" the goal is to communicate to their audience their feelings or interpretation of the world. In the case of lyrics, that communication depends upon using whatever language the piece is written in appropriately. Again, if you're just writing for yourself and a few friends, you're right and you don't have to worry about that communication.