Rig #3 Entry-Level PC-Mixer- based Home Studio

[Tweak]

Rig #3 Entry-Level PC-Mixer- based Home Studio
System that can Get the Job Done with a minimum of cash

Who its for:

Ideal for solo composers and small ensembles, especially for those with old computers and little cash. You can record up to two tracks at once easily.

Hooking it up:

With a desktop computer just take the alt 3-4 outs of the Xenyx and connect them to the 2496 line in jacks. The 2496 line out jacks can go back to any 2 unused line inputs on the Xenyx, such as the Tape ins or 2 unused channels. The keyboard's audio outs have to go to the mixer's line inputs plus MIDI must also be connected, in and out, to the 2496 breakout cable. Mics, of course, go into the XLR mic preamps on the mixer. Active Monitors go on the mixer's control room outs. If you are using the passive monitors I listed, then you connect the control room outs to your stereo amp or receiver. See our member nmodi's setup pic of the UB1204 connections.

Suggested gear:


Your desktop computer (older ones ok)
2+2 Bus mixer like Yamaha MG124CX, Behringer 1204 http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--BEH1204USB
Sonar Home studio or or Cubase
Soundcard: M-audio 2496 http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--MDOAP2496/sid--rigs
Yamaha MM6 http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--YAMMM6/sid--rigs
Passive speakers Alesis Monitor One Mk2 http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--ALEM1MK2/sid--rigs
Mics: AkG Perception 120 http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--AKGPERCEPTION120
SM57 http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--SHUSM57LC/sid--rigs


Remember the idea here is to do it as inexpensively as possible. The only valid criticisms here is that the items are too expensive or are so cheap they will not work.

[Tweak]

Discussion of Rig #3

The advantage of this system is low cost for high performance. The M-Audio 2496 has well-tweaked fast drivers that put it ahead of consumer cards. It can do software synths quite well and with low latencies. It also has a MIDI port, which is a money saver as you don't need a midi interface. Its also been around a long time so it's compatible with a wide range of computers, new and not so new.
The Behringer XENYX 1204 has the ALT 3-4 bus which makes it a breeze to send any channel (or channels) of the mixer to the soundcard while you monitor the other channels--great for recording. The mic preamps are good and "airy" which will give your vocals a crisp sound. You can add condenser mics to this system. Though it's not a condenser, I include the Shure SM57 here for it's low cost and the fact that it can record almost anything. This is the most popular recording studio mic in the world. I have chosen the AKG Perception as a good all around condenser mic, which has a crisp sound and is good for both vocals and acoustic guitars. The system will record electric guitar plugged in direct, but you can improve the sound considerably by adding a simple direct box like the Behringer DI-100.
Any keyboard with a MIDI out will work if you are just controlling soft synths and samplers. I picked the Yamaha MM6 due to its low cost and that it has sounds of its own. I think its great for electronica, hip hop and RnB. For a little more look at the Korg X-50, which is smooth and ambient. Also Consider the Juno D by Roland. By using a hardware synth you don't have to always use cpu-intensive softsynths on every track. Working this way, this system can get good results even on older, average desktop PCs. A strength of this system is its ability to add hardware like synth modules, a compressor, hardware effects boxes and up to 4 mics.  

To keep the cost down I included a passive speaker system as most people do have a hi fi receiver they can use. The Alesis Monitor One is really a value. Before active monitors hit the world many studios used these as their nearfield monitors. Active Monitors will also work with this system.

This rig can be extended in many ways. A DJ would want to add a phono preamp so they could connect their turntables. Hip hop beat makers would to well to add the inexpensive MPD16 which will work great with the MM6 drum kits (which are excellent for hip hop and electronica).

Working with a low grade laptop? No prob. Take the soundcard off the list and plug the alt 3-4 out of the Xenyx directly to the audio line input and take the line output back to the Tape in. Or, if you want you can use the USB interface that comes with the Xenyx, which allows you to use the Xenyx as your audio interface. Because this system has a hardware mixer and hardware midi synth you'll have no latency like all the mixerless dudes have. The drawback of this rig is that you have a maximum of 2 tracks that can be recorded at one time using analog inputs. Its not for jamming or big sessions. But for you and a friend working together it will work.

You're going to hear a lot of people slam this rig due to the inexpensive mixer. I can tell you I have used every piece in that rig and have got excellent sound.

[goodpunk6]

Discussion of Rig #3

The advantage of this system is low cost for high performance. The M-Audio 2496 has well-tweaked fast drivers that put it ahead of consumer cards. It can do software synths quite well and with low latencies. It also has a MIDI port, which is a money saver as you don't need a midi interface. Its also been around a long time so it's compatible with a wide range of computers, new and not so new.
The Behringer XENYX 1204 has the ALT 3-4 bus which makes it a breeze to send any channel (or channels) of the mixer to the soundcard while you monitor the other channels--great for recording. The mic preamps are good and "airy" which will give your vocals a crisp sound. You can add condenser mics to this system. Though it's not a condenser, I include the Shure SM57 here for it's low cost and the fact that it can record almost anything. This is the most popular recording studio mic in the world. I have chosen the AKG Perception as a good all around condenser mic, which has a crisp sound and is good for both vocals and acoustic guitars. The system will record electric guitar plugged in direct, but you can improve the sound considerably by adding a simple direct box like the Behringer DI-100.
Any keyboard with a MIDI out will work if you are just controlling soft synths and samplers. I picked the Yamaha MM6 due to its low cost and that it has sounds of its own. I think its great for electronica, hip hop and RnB. For a little more look at the Korg X-50, which is smooth and ambient. Also Consider the Juno D by Roland. By using a hardware synth you don't have to always use cpu-intensive softsynths on every track. Working this way, this system can get good results even on older, average desktop PCs. A strength of this system is its ability to add hardware like synth modules, a compressor, hardware effects boxes and up to 4 mics.  

To keep the cost down I included a passive speaker system as most people do have a hi fi receiver they can use. The Alesis Monitor One is really a value. Before active monitors hit the world many studios used these as their nearfield monitors. Active Monitors will also work with this system.

This rig can be extended in many ways. A DJ would want to add a phono preamp so they could connect their turntables. Hip hop beat makers would to well to add the inexpensive MPD16 which will work great with the MM6 drum kits (which are excellent for hip hop and electronica).

Working with a low grade laptop? No prob. Take the soundcard off the list and plug the alt 3-4 out of the Xenyx directly to the audio line input and take the line output back to the Tape in. Or, if you want you can use the USB interface that comes with the Xenyx, which allows you to use the Xenyx as your audio interface. Because this system has a hardware mixer and hardware midi synth you'll have no latency like all the mixerless dudes have. The drawback of this rig is that you have a maximum of 2 tracks that can be recorded at one time using analog inputs. Its not for jamming or big sessions. But for you and a friend working together it will work.

You're going to hear a lot of people slam this rig due to the inexpensive mixer. I can tell you I have used every piece in that rig and have got excellent sound.

So if you were looking for active monitors for this setup, what woud you go with?

Also, what cables would you need to put all of this together?

[Tweak]

Monitors, give us a price and an idea of your room size. Most powered monitors will work fine.

For cables, the mixer connects to the 2496 by dual 1/4" to RCA cables. The Mic needs and XLR cable.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--HOSCPR20/sid--SCf1

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--CBIMH/sid--SCf1

If your controller or keyboard does not have USB you will need a MIDI cable

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--HOSMID3/sid--SCf1

For monitors you it depends on the jacks on the back. If it has RCA jacks then you need a dual RCA to RCA cable

Otherwise you need another pair dual 1/4" to RCA cables

[goodpunk6]

Monitors, give us a price and an idea of your room size. Most powered monitors will work fine.

For cables, the mixer connects to the 2496 by dual 1/4" to RCA cables. The Mic needs and XLR cable.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--HOSCPR20/sid--SCf1

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--CBIMH/sid--SCf1

If your controller or keyboard does not have USB you will need a MIDI cable

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--HOSMID3/sid--SCf1

For monitors you it depends on the jacks on the back. If it has RCA jacks then you need a dual RCA to RCA cable

Otherwise you need another pair dual 1/4" to RCA cables

Great advice!!

The size of the room in about 15x12 and I'm looking to spend $300-$400 for a pair of monitors.

Tweak, I was hoping you could help me out a bit with this setup. I've got a new PC, intel 2.4ghz quad core, 4gb of ram, running vista 64 and sonar. I've got the behringer mixer your recommended and the audiophile 2496. I would like to be able to record a band on this setup but perhaps this isn't the best route? I wouldn't mind recording laying down one instrument at a time, but I don't even know if that possible with this setup. Since I'd mostly be recording a band, is a keyboard even really necessary? I have a set of electronic drums with a midi connection as well. Because I have a limited amount of tracks I can lay down at once, is it best to get something like a Tascam US1641?

I haven't purchased the mic or keyboard yet because of these concerns. So my budget to finish up the studio stands about another 1k-1200. Should I scrap the items I have for others or can I simply add on?

[goodpunk6]

????

Monitors, give us a price and an idea of your room size. Most powered monitors will work fine.

For cables, the mixer connects to the 2496 by dual 1/4" to RCA cables. The Mic needs and XLR cable.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--HOSCPR20/sid--SCf1

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--CBIMH/sid--SCf1

If your controller or keyboard does not have USB you will need a MIDI cable

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--HOSMID3/sid--SCf1

For monitors you it depends on the jacks on the back. If it has RCA jacks then you need a dual RCA to RCA cable

Otherwise you need another pair dual 1/4" to RCA cables

Great advice!!

The size of the room in about 15x12 and I'm looking to spend $300-$400 for a pair of monitors.

Tweak, I was hoping you could help me out a bit with this setup. I've got a new PC, intel 2.4ghz quad core, 4gb of ram, running vista 64 and sonar. I've got the behringer mixer your recommended and the audiophile 2496. I would like to be able to record a band on this setup but perhaps this isn't the best route? I wouldn't mind recording laying down one instrument at a time, but I don't even know if that possible with this setup. Since I'd mostly be recording a band, is a keyboard even really necessary? I have a set of electronic drums with a midi connection as well. Because I have a limited amount of tracks I can lay down at once, is it best to get something like a Tascam US1641?

I haven't purchased the mic or keyboard yet because of these concerns. So my budget to finish up the studio stands about another 1k-1200. Should I scrap the items I have for others or can I simply add on? [/quote]

[kartonnenkopje]

hey,
definitely check out the 64 bit reaper version (at http://reaper.fm/)
it works like a charm on my vista 64 :-)

[Tweak]

????



Tweak, I was hoping you could help me out a bit with this setup. I've got a new PC, intel 2.4ghz quad core, 4gb of ram, running vista 64 and sonar. I've got the behringer mixer your recommended and the audiophile 2496. I would like to be able to record a band on this setup but perhaps this isn't the best route? I wouldn't mind recording laying down one instrument at a time, but I don't even know if that possible with this setup. Since I'd mostly be recording a band, is a keyboard even really necessary? I have a set of electronic drums with a midi connection as well. Because I have a limited amount of tracks I can lay down at once, is it best to get something like a Tascam US1641?

I haven't purchased the mic or keyboard yet because of these concerns. So my budget to finish up the studio stands about another 1k-1200. Should I scrap the items I have for others or can I simply add on?

Recording a band with the 2496 will require that you record no more than 2 mono tracks at a time. The Tascam US1641 is one of the best, if not the best deal for the money in terms of recording bands. You can keep the mixer but the 2496 should go.

I think powered monitors with an 8" woofer will be fine in that room given you eventually get some room treatment. You could go with 6" too. But I personally like 8's better.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--KRKRP8G2/sid--SCf3

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--MACMR8/sid--SCf1

[goodpunk6]

Ok, so I decided to hybrid the rig #3 and #2. I got the Alesis Multimix 16 and the MOTU midi express 128. Hope this works!

????



Tweak, I was hoping you could help me out a bit with this setup. I've got a new PC, intel 2.4ghz quad core, 4gb of ram, running vista 64 and sonar. I've got the behringer mixer your recommended and the audiophile 2496. I would like to be able to record a band on this setup but perhaps this isn't the best route? I wouldn't mind recording laying down one instrument at a time, but I don't even know if that possible with this setup. Since I'd mostly be recording a band, is a keyboard even really necessary? I have a set of electronic drums with a midi connection as well. Because I have a limited amount of tracks I can lay down at once, is it best to get something like a Tascam US1641?

I haven't purchased the mic or keyboard yet because of these concerns. So my budget to finish up the studio stands about another 1k-1200. Should I scrap the items I have for others or can I simply add on?

Recording a band with the 2496 will require that you record no more than 2 mono tracks at a time. The Tascam US1641 is one of the best, if not the best deal for the money in terms of recording bands. You can keep the mixer but the 2496 should go.

I think powered monitors with an 8" woofer will be fine in that room given you eventually get some room treatment. You could go with 6" too. But I personally like 8's better.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--KRKRP8G2/sid--SCf3

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--MACMR8/sid--SCf1

[Tweak]

Curious, why the MOTU midi express? Do you have a lot of midi devices?

[goodpunk6]

Curious, why the MOTU midi express? Do you have a lot of midi devices?

Well that's the part I didn't really think about. I should have opted to go with something smaller. All I've got is a set of yamaha v-drums and a M-Audio Axiom 49 Keyboard MIDI Controller. Your guide recommended it so I got it.

So with the alesis multimix 16, the keyboard, the MOTU 128, and with mackie mr5 reference monitors, what cables will I need?

[Tweak]

The monitor outs of the multimix16 are balanced; so are the MR5 inputs, so get a pair of TRS cables

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--CBIBL2A

The axiom can connect by USB, so you won't necessarily have to connect it to the MOTU. I don't know which v drums you have, but if it has USB then that too will not need standard midi cables.

You might think about returning the MOTU unless you are thinking of expanding your rig. That midi interface is for people who use a lot of hardware synths, modules, FX, samplers, drum machines and control surfaces. If you plan to get stuff like that you should keep it. There is a ton of older midi gear that can be had very inexpensively and that interface will really open your expansion options.

You will need some good USB cables.

[goodpunk6]

Thanks tweak. I'll hit you up when I need help hooking this all up. =)

The monitor outs of the multimix16 are balanced; so are the MR5 inputs, so get a pair of TRS cables

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--CBIBL2A

The axiom can connect by USB, so you won't necessarily have to connect it to the MOTU. I don't know which v drums you have, but if it has USB then that too will not need standard midi cables.

You might think about returning the MOTU unless you are thinking of expanding your rig. That midi interface is for people who use a lot of hardware synths, modules, FX, samplers, drum machines and control surfaces. If you plan to get stuff like that you should keep it. There is a ton of older midi gear that can be had very inexpensively and that interface will really open your expansion options.

You will need some good USB cables.

[ben1]

I am looking at rigs #2 & #3. I have a mackie 1202 VLZ3 and a Dell XPS 410 (Vista w/ mce) with no sound card. I am considering a PreSonus Firebox for my audio interface since the Delta runs $100. It seems I can get the firebox and cubase le for around $230. I am curious about the different combinations I could put together with the mixer and firewire interface. The firebox has 4 line outputs, 2 main outputs, and 2 line inputs. The Firebox main outs would go to the monitors. The alt 3-4 bus would go to the line inputs. What would the 4 line outs be used for? The firebox has a dedicated midi connection so I don't know. I am having trouble figuring what advantage, if any, there would be to this setup. I really feel like I would be duplicating some functionality. I would have the option of two different kinds of mic preamps, which would be one bonus....help! -Ben-

[Tweak]

The benefits of adding a mixer to the firebox does not come into play till you have enough gear where you need more inputs. You could mix down the firebox outputs on the mixer but this is really better done with 8 outputs or more.

Uses of outputs;
use as sends to effects boxes
use as a dedicated line to a sampler
dedicated line to a vocoder
monitor feed for a vocal booth

Uses of inputs
can connect more hardware synths, samplers, effects units, other line instruments.
can add more preamps




Using the mixer

[mariogl91]

Hello,

If I used the xenyx as my audio interface by connecting it to my MacBook with USB, would I be able to record each input from the xenyx to a separate track in logic?

Thanks,
Mario

[Big Tim]

[quote="mariogl91"]Hello,

If I used the xenyx as my audio interface by connecting it to my MacBook with USB, would I be able to record each input from the xenyx to a separate track in logic?

Thanks,
Mario[/quote]
No, the USB interface on the Xenyx only allows you to record the stereo output of the Main output bus. If you solo the channels then yes, you will only record what is on that channel, but if you have a drumkit with, say 4 or 5 mics on it you can only record a stereo mix of it.

[mariogl91]

No, the USB interface on the Xenyx only allows you to record the stereo output of the Main output bus. If you solo the channels then yes, you will only record what is on that channel, but if you have a drumkit with, say 4 or 5 mics on it you can only record a stereo mix of it.

And is there an interface that does what I want either with firewire or USB?

[Big Tim]

Yes, there's dozens of interfaces out there with various different configurations which will do multi-channel recording. Obviously the more channels you want the greater the cost, and most interfaces max out at 8 channels of mic preamp. Many will daisy-chain, or have expansion options which allow you to hook additional preamps or devices into them for more options. For higher channel counts FireWire has proved to be more reliable, but it can be a little picky about connectivity so you need to be careful when configuring your machine to connect to a FW device. USB2 can handle 8 or so simultaneous connections without too much issue, but 16 or above really needs FW.

Some places to start looking:

Presonus FP10 (FW)
MOTU 8Pre (FW)
Tascam US1641 (USB2)
Focusrite Sapphire Pro (FW)

[MisterCrayle]

No, the USB interface on the Xenyx only allows you to record the stereo output of the Main output bus. If you solo the channels then yes, you will only record what is on that channel, but if you have a drumkit with, say 4 or 5 mics on it you can only record a stereo mix of it.

Please tell me the reason why I can only record up to 2 channels max!
I'm a drummer and I thought the XENYX would be perfect to record my drums for up to 6 or 7 tracks at once.
Now i'm all lost, what can I do? Or what kind of PC do I need? I'm using a laptop.

[Big Tim]

No, the USB interface on the Xenyx only allows you to record the stereo output of the Main output bus. If you solo the channels then yes, you will only record what is on that channel, but if you have a drumkit with, say 4 or 5 mics on it you can only record a stereo mix of it.

Please tell me the reason why I can only record up to 2 channels max!

Because that's the way Behringer designed it, sorry! Here's some thoughts on it though: USB1 is cheap and easy to implement, and it's utterly universal on PC's and laptops of the last 10+ years. USB2 has only really been going for 3 or 4 years, and although it's standard on virtually all machines nowadays, many older machines are still in use and don't have USB2. USB2 has also been a lot slower to be brought on board with notebooks/laptops, so many people who may want to use the Behringer to record, say, a stereo mix of a live gig may not have USB2-equipped laptops. So it basically hits a wider audience.

The reason you can only record a stereo track with USB1.1 is that it doesn't have the throughput to carry enough data to do any more channels than that. USB2 and FW can carry a lot more data, so can do more channels.

I'm a drummer and I thought the XENYX would be perfect to record my drums for up to 6 or 7 tracks at once.
Now i'm all lost, what can I do? Or what kind of PC do I need? I'm using a laptop.

You have quite a lot of options, but it involves spending more money whatever way you go.

If you insist on having a mixer, look at the Mackie Onyx series with the add-on FW card, or the Alesis MultiMix. Both of those have a FW connection which will carry all the channels you need. There's also an Allen & Heath FW desk, but it's big (24 channels), probably much more than you need. Unfortunately I don't know of any USB2 equipped desks - many someone else does and can help out there.

If you're happy with an interface, then there are lots of options. Most of them revolve around FireWire, but there are one or two USB2 interfaces out there. To quote my short list a few posts above:

Presonus FP10 (FW)
MOTU 8Pre (FW)
Tascam US1641 (USB2)
Focusrite Sapphire Pro (FW)

But there are many, many more than that.

[MisterCrayle]

If you're happy with an interface, then there are lots of options. Most of them revolve around FireWire, but there are one or two USB2 interfaces out there. To quote my short list a few posts above:

Presonus FP10 (FW)
MOTU 8Pre (FW)
Tascam US1641 (USB2)
Focusrite Sapphire Pro (FW)

But there are many, many more than that.

Thanks, but i've talked to some local music store workers, and I asked them about the Presonus FP10 and they said it has 2 outputs so it'd still be just a two track recording session. Or is this not true?

[musikron]

Most music store clerks are clueless, you'll learn that in time. That is untrue what you were told. It has 8 line outs as well as 8 pre amps and 2 line ins. It would work for what you want to do, just put it between the mics and mixer, or you could use the 2 line outs to drive a L-R pair of channels on your mixer.

[Big Tim]

Thanks, but i've talked to some local music store workers, and I asked them about the Presonus FP10 and they said it has 2 outputs so it'd still be just a two track recording session. Or is this not true?

No, it's total rubbish.

None of the devices I listed above work in the quite same way as a mixer. They connect over FireWire or USB, so the way the inputs and outputs work is not the same as a mixer.

The FP10 has 8 mic/line inputs. This means you can record 8 mic or line signals to individual channels on your computer. You don't need to connect anything to the line-outputs - the signals you are going to record travel over the FW connection into your computer. You will have your monitor speakers connected to the Main Outputs on the FP10, so that you can hear the sounds, but this does not represent the number of individual channels being recorded, it just "monitors" them.

All the above devices work in this principle. Many of them have additional ways of adding extra channels, expanding the number of channels you can record at a time. Again, none of that has anything to do with the number of physical outputs the devices have.

Those guys from the music store should be fired, or at least banned from making any statements about recording equipment.

[MisterCrayle]

No, it's total rubbish.

None of the devices I listed above work in the quite same way as a mixer. They connect over FireWire or USB, so the way the inputs and outputs work is not the same as a mixer.

The FP10 has 8 mic/line inputs. This means you can record 8 mic or line signals to individual channels on your computer. You don't need to connect anything to the line-outputs - the signals you are going to record travel over the FW connection into your computer. You will have your monitor speakers connected to the Main Outputs on the FP10, so that you can hear the sounds, but this does not represent the number of individual channels being recorded, it just "monitors" them.

All the above devices work in this principle. Many of them have additional ways of adding extra channels, expanding the number of channels you can record at a time. Again, none of that has anything to do with the number of physical outputs the devices have.

Those guys from the music store should be fired, or at least banned from making any statements about recording equipment.

Man, I really appreciate your will to help me and others. Thanks. I just bought the M-AUDIO FAST TRACK ULTRA, would you happen to know anything about that product? It has 8 ins, 8 outs. Please, please don't tell me I wasted $350.